Clairvoyant Investigations by Hodson and Lyness, 1957-1959
Clairvoyant Investigations by Geoffrey Hodson and
David Lyness, 1957-1959
Hodson "has shown no difficulty in reality testing, no affective
disturbance, no thought disorder or bizarre behaviour" at any time.
"After having spent many hours at this work I am certain of his
ability, given satisfactory conditions, to see substantially
correctly though not of course entirely without error". "The
inferences to be drawn from his recorded observations are another
matter. The whole subject is so tremendously complex and the facts
available are so fragmentary that the utmost caution is necessary in
arriving at any hard and fast conclusion." DD Lyness
1956-12-16 at Vasanta
1957-03-10 at 31 Hospital Road
16 pages -- Omitted
Size: 77824 byte(s) R06
1957-03-13 at 31 Hospital Road
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION at 31 Hospital Road on 13th March, 1957.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH), Jack Askew (JSEA) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL- Well, we'll ask you first of all to look at this
speck of diamond, (about the size of a pinhead)
GH- Well, if you will both sit down and absolutely relax.
(Speck of diamond adjusted with piece of cardboard) (LP)
GH- I begin by looking at this speck of diamond with my eyes
open, but deliberately blending etheric clairvoyance with the
physical sight of the object so as to keep it directly in both
fields of vision. The first experience is to see the speck as
intensely active with innumerable minute points of light which are
presumably quanta or foci of energy, possibly atoms, within it and
round it so that the actual existence of this speck etherically is
at least twice as large as the physical, and in this extension the
activity of minute particles is very noticeable and observable.
Some of these are shooting off, so that there is a constant
emanation of extremely minute particles which I will try and examine
directly. This emanation isn't regular, except that it continues, I
mean that the intensity of it will now be at say 10 o'clock and then
at 3 o'clock and so on. By ten and three I am assuming the middle
of the particle to the centre of the clock, with twelve at the
vertical, six at the other end. Subjectively, I get the feeling of
tremendous compression, as if some power, influence or formative
control were holding tremendous potencies in perfect check.
Diagrammatically this might be thought of as a cone pointing
downwards, the base and interior of the cone filled with this power
which is thus focussed and concentrated and compressed to the apex
of the come. -(P)- I think I would like to have the ring. This is
rather a small piece for me to keep my clairvoyant observation in
the right direction. I slip away from it.
DDL- Now can I ask the odd question?
GH- Yes, do ask anything you like. I haven't started really
DDL- Now, these general points of force or light that you
see, do they appear to be moving with respect to each other or
maintaining their relative position with respect to each other? (eg
soldiers on parade).
GH- Now, I must be careful to know what you mean. One set
of points are being continually emanated like an extremely fine
DDL- That is not of immediate interest to us. It's if
you can find a set of points which is in a definite stationary
GH- Inside. I would like to reduce the glitter of the
diamond as much as we can. (Thin blue curtains and venetian
blinds drawn to produce a comfortably dim light) (Considerable
discussion re positioning ; using ring now).
GH- (VLP) I now have passed through a kind of sight which
showed me that the diamond appears to be constructed of a number of
separate crystals extremely finely joined together at faces,
therefore I presume I was only still looking at E5 or 4; looking at
a slightly higher - much higher magnification I now see a pattern of
innumerable anus arranged into a shape. This shape seems to me to
be a centre with funnels radiating from it something like a hexagon
or six sided figure. There seem to be ... six, I think, six of
these radial funnels from a centre, fairly regularly arranged
like a hexagon, if the outer openings were all linked up. Each
funnel is ... is discharging a veritable stream of minute particles,
presumably anu. I'll look at one in a minute. The whole phenomenon
is pervaded by countless extremely minute particles presumably anu
and these are of two orders: One free filling the space more or
less, though none of them touch, and others following lines of force
such as to form the currents flowing down the radial funnels. Of
course my first sight, if I really am seeing, is two dimensional
somewhat, though the funnels are three dimensional. But I have not
got a third dimensional suggestion which should be like the axle and
nave, hub of a wheel at the centre as if something like an axle
passed through this central point towards me and from me at right
angles to the direction of the radial funnel. In each funnel I see
groups of anus arranged as if they were inside circles or something
or perhaps another shape, possibly a hexagon but more likely a
circle. -(P)- This axle, as I call it, looks like a rod and it has
freely moving anus or points moving in it, held in it, and it's
rounded I think at the ends, but I am not sure. Some arrangement of
forms inside it. Each containing a certain number of these points.
Now this -(P)- is only one of a great number of three dimensional
geometrical regular forms all packed in regularly together and close
together. My impression is that the pattern of this packing at the
level at the level at which I am observing, which I think is next
below the Anu, seems to be in the design. (VLP) Can't see yet how
these shapes can - er be packed in together ... How they could be
as I seem to see them, but I will say what I seem to see even if I
can't see the sense of it at the moment. The arrangement at this
level seems to be like these processed cheeses in a box in
triangular pieces all fitting together. Those are the senses of
pattern that I get, both in the molecule itself, which first
impressed me with that design and then a number of such ... laid one
on top of the other as if they were partly flat, with thickness.
-(P)- Now coming much lower down to perhaps E4 or even lower, their
design ... the design of packing is strangely different and I have
been resisting it, but I now find myself unable to avoid a
conclusion that the design within is somewhat cubicle; intensely
closely packed, cubes, possibly, though I see chiefly the verticals
and the horizontals touching and packed together as if I am looking
along a long line of pillars ... or into crystalline cubes, into and
through crystalline transparent cubes. I am not certain, but I am
inclined to think the corners of the cubes are chamfered. But I..
er ... Oh, now I begin to see better, I couldn't see how my
hexagons made cubes. Well, if I really am right, the cube is formed
by a centre in the middle of the cube and funnels to the six sides
and these sides of which there are myriads and they touch.
DDL- They touch each other do they?
GH- The sides of the cubes seem to me to be touching each
DDL- And what size are the funnels compared to the cubes?
Twice, or half?
GH- You mean from the point? From the interior common apex?
From there to where? To the sides of the cube?
DDL- Does the funnel project out of the cube?
GH- Oh yes, I see what you mean. My first impression, but I
haven't examined that, was that it was within, level with the - that
the opening of funnel would be about level with the cube. I am not
sure, I haven't examined that.
DDL- Well, while you are looking at that, what is the
rough relation of the anu to a funnel? Is it say a man to HPB Hall?
GH- Oh, yes, I see, yes I will do that first. -(P)- I
couldn't, I couldn't. Uncountably. The gap in dimensions is too
DDL- Is it like a man to half of Whangarei?
GH- Oh, I see what you mean, something like that. Yes of
that order. Oh, well I can come nearer than that. It would be like
the - supposing you could see the point of a needle if the point of
a needle were made luminous - were a luminous point hardly visible,
though to me very clearly visible, that size is what the Anu
actually does look like to me. Now the - it has no diameter; that
won't help me. Wait a moment (LP) I will try this, but is like
asking me to compare a single star in the Milky Way, or to give some
comparative size. It is so - the anu is from this point of view, so
dimensionless. I will try a little - a different perspective, just
a moment. -(P)- I am sorry, at the moment I can't answer that
question. For one thing the anu are in such a constant motion. I
well keep it in mind. I can't say that. I should only mislead you
at the present stage of this research. Direct me, what else?
DDL- Well now, we have two cubes together, now the
funnels opening on the face of the cube to the next door cube, do
they fit just like that?
GH- The funnels or the sides ... Yes (LP) No ... At the
lower level they appear to touch but magnifying a little more there
is a space between them. The funnels discharge into that space.
DDL- And what is the width of the space relative to the
length of the funnel?
GH- Yes, that I think I can tell you. (LP) About a
proportion of 1 to 12, to 1 to 16.
DDL- The space being 1 and the funnel being 12 or 16. Is
the funnel rotating itself? or is it stationary?
GH- Just a moment.
End Cassette 14A Start Cassette 14B
GH- (LP) I think it is stationary, but wait a moment I must
just qualify that, you see the ... I can only look at the walls to
see what those walls are like, what they are doing. It is like a
tightly stretched skin of inconceivable thinness, and it may have
component forces going round it, round and round, but the impression
I get of the funnel itself is that it is not spinning.
DDL- Each funnel relative to the other five in the cube
is maintaining the same position?
DDL- And the cubes relative to each other are stationary?
DDL- There's no sense of vibration? - Oscillation?
GH- Do you mean inter-cubal oscillation? Wait a moment, I
must see. No. No rightly or wrongly the whole gives me a strange
impression of stability. Although the whole is built of forces and
moving components like anu yet this pattern seems to be stable.
DDL- Would it be difficult for you now to look at a piece
of graphite lead pencil just beside.
GH- No. I'll rest. I'll just rest now for you see I have
concentrated for a long time. I'll just rest.
DDL- I must leave that running. I give you a spell - I
go and get a bit of lead [pencil] (VLP) I may say that all this
is very good, it all fits.
GH- Does it really?
DDL- I'm going to put this lead pencil point in like
that. Will that be allright? do you think?
GH- Yes - perfectly. Now move it towards me will you? Am I
right in assuming that if it were possible it would be helpful to
obtain some comparative sizes between say the squares and the whole
speck I'm looking at?
DDL- No, that wouldn't help so much if you can give ...
Now you see you're looking at those cubes which to you in the
diamond were close together and fairly rigid. Now if, in looking at
this lead pencil you are able to see similar sorts of cubes, they
might be a different sort of distance apart or have some
GH- Oh, I see.
DDL- And if could do that ...
GH- Right ... Now David, you couldn't scrape some off for
me and make a little heap could you? You see the point of this
thing is shining, picking up light, and you may say, well what does
that matter when your eyes are shut, but it does because there are
light energies coming off it. Just scrape some with a knife, make a
little pile of lead.
JSEA- What about the dull end?
GH- The dull end, that well do. That's it [arranging] Now
quite still, sit perfectly still. -(P)- Well I can identify a cube
anyway. But I have only got one in my field of vision at the
moment. Now what do you want? Is the packing the same or what do
you want to know?
DDL- We want to know if the packing is similar or quite
different, how far the cubes are apart.
GH- Right. This may not mean anything. May only be my way
of looking at the moment, but in the diamond I received the
impression that the squares were standing on their sides, and the
whole thing was like a cubical design, flat with bottom sides ...
the whole thing vertical and horizontal in rectangular form.
Now I am doubtful of that in the graphite because it seems to me
that it's more diagonal, more as if they were resting on their
lines, edges, but it still consists of cubes close together. Not
so stable. No. A less ... What a peculiar sensation. As if ...
well I'll say what I seem to see whether it's sense or not, but it
almost looks as if the cubes are in some motion relative to each
other, instead of being gripped and held as in the diamond, almost
as if there were a rocking, a very, very slight rocking motion -
side against side, and even edge to edge.
DDL- But they are still close?
GH- They are still close. I haven't got this down to
distances yet. -(P)- Slightly less close. I don't know whether
I could measure the distance. I am going to try and compare
that. -(P)- Yes. When I look back from the graphite into the
diamond again, the contrast gives the impression, the inaccurate
impression that the diamond cubes are touching, whereas the
graphite cubes seem to be - I'll tell you. It is hard to
measure such things. Perhaps half as near. The nearest I dare
go. Twice further apart.
DDL- It gives to me the impression that if you were able
to pop a cube, you could pop a cube in between two cubes of
graphite. Cube one, Cube two - you could pop one in between
GH- Oh no. I don't think so. I've mislead you if I said
DDL- Well that's all right. Never mind. I don't want to
hammer you too much on this. If I were to put a little sugar there
would you see if you could find any of those cubes in it. While
you are seeing those cubes just nicely, I'll put a little sugar in
front of you. There will of course be other things in the sugar,
see if you can locate ...
GH- (LP) I had better wait - better have a rest now David.
I had better have a quarter of an hour complete relaxation. I
DDL- You see when one thinks of a cone one things of a
GH- Yes, that's right.
DDL- Now is this cone really more like a hat that the
GH- No, No, it is like a dunce's cap.
DDL- Quite an acute cone.
GH- It's an acute cone.
DDL- Well then, if they fit into a cube, these acute
cones, then the base of the cone can't be in any way
co-extensive with the surfaces of the cube.
GH- No. The surface of the cube is larger.
JSEA. There is an axle that runs right away through the
middle of all these.
DDL- That's earlier on, that axle, I think. Do you
GH- Yes, we've got to find out that axle, yes.
DDL- Well, I'd much rather you forgot all about that for
the time being. Pick up the cubes in the sugar and see if you
can see any groups of cubes and if so what their spatial
relationships and distances apart are. That's the line we want.
GH- All right.
DDL- And should you see anything else, any other thing of
a comparable size to a cube but of a different shape or even say
a tenth of the size of a cube but a different shape, you could
describe that. But don't worry about that - just the spatial
relationships of the cubes, or groups of cubes. I hope you will
be able to disentangle groups of cubes.
GH- Right. I like you to talk, because I am guided a
little. I am not told anything. Those are the sorts of things
I like to hear you say, it helps me when I come to look.
DDL- Coming back to cubes. Now the points of the cube,
do they all meet in a single point, or is there a sort of
central globe at which they run up to or how would you describe
GH- When I was looking, now, I could not see the end or
limit of this aggregation of cubes. I didn't withdraw and look to
see where they stopped or something like that. I was simply in the
middle of them - in a world of cubes with these funnels in them,
running in their faces, and seeing them first of all appearing to be
absolutely touching, but on your direction seeing actually there was
an extremely thin gap between then. I didn't look laterally or
vertically to see "Now where do these stop?" and "What happens
when they stop?" I didn't see that. Do you want me to try?
DDL- No necessarily. But as I visualise it there are
cubes going in like this. Now there is something sort of
business at the centre. Does that seem a more dense centre? Is
there a hole there, or does it seem to you that at the
confluence of the points of the cubes, there is ...
GH- The funnels you mean?
DDL- Of the funnels, I mean, an extra densification of
GH- Yes, yes, there is. I didn't follow that up, but that
was my axle business. You know, when I started to say there was
a rod or there was something where the apices all met.
DDL- Now you spoke of the cubes being chamfered as it
were. There is no sharp point at the corner of the cube, in
other words. It is a general impression of a cube but not a
GH- I think so. Not rounded mark you. If the lines were
continued you would get a sharp right- angle, but it just seemed
to me to be just smoothed off slightly at the corners. But in a
geometrical smoothing, not a rounded smoothing - as far as I
DDL- How do you know which way up a cube is? How do you
know for instance it is not standing on its point, or is the
impression that they are all standing on their points? You have
your own idea of horizontal. Now how is it that you know
whether a particular cube is like this, or whether it is on its
point? You see what I am getting at?
GH- Yes. Now. I don't know, except that I was struck by the
fact that when I was looking at the diamond my consciousness or
my mind received this result of seeing as if the cubes were all
flat on their faces. Like a lot of child's bricks built up
together. That's what it looked like, as you would build a
house of bricks. Flat on their faces. But when I looked at the
graphite, whether it was some trick of my consciousness or
something or the change from one to the other I don't know. I
began to receive the impression that they were more diagonal and
on their - as if resting on one of the edges. That might be
DDL- Do you mean that they were on their edges, or that
they were flat on the side of a hill?
GH- Yes, flat on the side of a hill. That might not be
radical ... (inaudible)
DDL- Would it be possible for you to if you were at a
cube, for example, to run along 50 or so of them?
GH- I have not tried it, but it would be very difficult.
DDL- It would be hard to retain that focus?
GH- I would lose the cube.
DDL- Could you hop from one cube to the next and so on?
GH- I could do that, yes, I can see two at once, shall we
say. When you asked me that question about if they were
actually really touching, or whether there was a slight gap then
I saw two. And I was aware that there was an extension above on
the other sides. But those extensions were not in the focus of
my vision. They were out of focus, and I would have to
deliberately make the effort to change the direction of my
vision to see the one above and the other sides.
DDL- If you withdraw your focus a little ... I see what
it is. You are at a point and it is very difficult for you to
enlarge that point, as it were, to include a lot or group of say
GH- Yes, it is hard to step back and see a number. When I
am in the condition in which I am seeing one fairly thoroughly,
the change in magnification is really so great that it would be
difficult. But I feel sure I could acquire the faculty. Ask me.
DDL- This time, when you look at them again in the sugar,
I want to see if you can step back and see say a group of ten or -
if they are cubes arranged it would one, four, sixteen, thirty-two,
sort of idea. (inaudible).
GH- You can, without disturbing me in the very least, when I
pause - when I have answered a question - when I have apparently
said what I am seeing and I am just looking at the thing -
looking at the phenomenon, then you can shoot quickly a
question. Shoot it at me very short. "Relative sizes?" ,
"Gap?" , "Could you step back and see a dozen?" Anything like
that, very quickly.
DDL- When you have got down to the focus.
GH- When I've really seemed to have got it. I must just be
careful, in the interest, that I don't strain myself. What do you
think it would be wise, to do this sugar then stop for the morning?
DDL- Yes. (DDL arranged a lump of commercial glucose-D
about the size of a pea - about 2 inches from the graphite on the
card). We've got 20 minutes on the tape. If we just do the sugar.
GH- And then the other questions, mm, mm, right. Just very
lightly poke this lump of sugar a little nearer to me. Yes the
sugar only. The length of the sugar. A little more. That's
DDL- Shall I put the graphite beside it?
GH- No! I want it isolated a bit. That's one reason - a
little further away. Then just a shade forward. Thank you. (LP)
The first impression looking at the lump - piece of sugar is that
it's not composed all of cubes. The cubes are there but I have lost
the sense of totality of cubes. To explain this in diagrammatic
form I would say that there might be a group of cubes forming a
centre and a number of ... of ... grouped cubes forming a line off
from that centre. Perhaps, in some cases, only ... a comparative
... four or so cubes out from the outermost cube edge of the central
group of cubes. These are irregular, though I am slightly reminded
of a tortoise; head, four legs and tail, though it is not quite
regular. But the distances are generally about what the tortoise's
tail would be to its shell to, or its outstretched neck and head.
In between these aggregations of cubes are ... Well, when I
concentrate on cubes, in between is dark, strangely enough. In
between these radial lines of cubes it is dark, at the moment. So
that I am evidently focussed onto the carbon atom alone. Now when I
do this, I am looking at cubes, and four cubes, and trying to find a
plan of the cubical arrangement, I don't see the funnels inside the
cube. It is like looking at a number of crystalline cubes. And it
requires an effort and a change of focus to look into where I can
see a system of funnels and then I only see one cube at a time.
DDL- Well, if you keep looking just at the cubes as
cubes, like blocks, could you form an impression as to the commonest
group of cubes? Is it usually a line of four or eight or - a jumble
of a greater number? And is the line straight or curved or
GH- Yes. The particular grouping that I hit on at first, and
which I am still holding - I can answer some of those questions.
The lines are straight. It is like a ... It is just rather
like a honeycomb effect so that if you gouged out a lump from
the centre of a honeycomb. I know that this is not quite
right geometrically but that sort of thing, and then there were
say perhaps a dozen cells in your central lump and then
pieces going off at about four to six such cells in lines
outwards at irregular positions - Not as regular as the
tortoise, which was to only give the picture - irregularly.
DDL- Could you take a particular line of a few cubes and
sort of see where it really ends?
GH- I did that. It goes off into the darkness to which I
refer, of another world, another state of matter altogether,
which to the diamond sight is dark. I can make it, I dare say -
I could investigate that phenomenon, but at present I am only
seeing diamond cubes.
DDL- Well, keep that. I would expect to find those
lines, for the most part, to have a particular number of cubes.
GH- Each regularly do you mean? The same length?
DDL- They would nearly all have the same number. That is
what I would expect, but I may be wrong.
GH- I will try. It wasn't my impression, but I will try ...
Now I have somehow by accident hit on another group which is
different. The central number is small, and, in fact, perhaps
only say eighteen; and lines going of, let's see. One
peculiarity I have noticed in both of these clumps of cubes is
that the lines don't go off square to a face, apparently, they
all go off - or most of them seem to go off at a diagonal to
the sides of cubes. It may be ... It may not be anything real
there, but that is what it looks like. Like the legs of a
tortoise. Now wait a moment. I want to look there. This is
quite different. This lot is quite different. The central mass
is much smaller group than in the first group I happened to
contact. And the ... lines are therefore longer in proportion
to it. I don't say they are longer than the others, but they
are longer in proportion to the group in the middle. -(P)- I
see the impression of movement inside the mass, like waves or
the sea round a rock, and the carbons don't move. The cubes
don't seem to move. But there are other things, there is
movement in there rather irregular, but there is definitely
smooth, almost wavelike movement, but this movement doesn't
upset the arrangement. The carbon atoms and whatever shape I
happen to see them in - that stands very firm and gives me the
impression of immovable rock-like stability inside the larger
DDL- Now do you think you could locate and describe any
other type of atom, in association with these carbon atoms?
GH- Wait a moment. -(P)- There is much more dynamic,
volatile movement and moving substance composed of atoms of which I
begin to get a form, right up between the arms. By the by, the
other substances nestle right close up in between the arms; right up
to and some practically touching the central group of carbon atoms,
and I am impressed by the closeness with which these different
substances nestle up against the carbon - the cubes, as if there
were some attraction pulling and holding them together. Now I am
just going to make a statement which may not have validity. It does
seem to me that the end small group of cubes of a line in some way
blends with a surrounding substance and loses slightly its - not its
shape, it still remains a cube - but its crystalline purity. As if
there were some slight colouring that went on there.
DDL- That is very interesting. Can you follow up and see
what happens as it were to the end cube? What it's got immediately
GH- Say that again.
DDL- Could you tell us what is immediately round the end
cube of the line which is poking out into the darkness?
GH- What happens to the last cube?
DDL- Yes, what appears to be attached or in relation to
the last cube.
GH- (LP) At first sight, spiked - minute bodies like
animalcules clinging round it. I can look into those and see what
they are, they are probably atoms with something radiating from
them. When you asked me that was the first result. Like a lot of
spiked ... spheres. Like burrs that stick to your trousers.
Something like that. Clinging to the cubes. In fact, there is an
obvious magnetic attraction or some very close binding attraction
which causes these other substances to be attracted like iron
filings to a magnet. Hold it there, strongly, like the grip of a
burr on your trousers.
End Cassette 14B. Start Cassette 15A
DDL- How many burrs to one cube?
GH- Ever so many. (murmuring) Oh no, no. No it isn't ever
so many. Wait a moment. Lots. No. I must be careful there. I
don't think there is more than one to a face, or one and a half.
DDL- But one face would be up against the next cube,
GH- No, I am talking of the outside.
DDL- Of the end face.
GH- Yes. The end cube, where you directed my attention.
DDL- Well, it will have five free faces, won't it?
DDL- And you think there is about a burr to each face?
GH- Before I answer I ought to tell you that the radial
lines are not of single cubes. They are of multiple cubes, in
parallel, so that a line might be two or three cubes thick, so that
the end doesn't consist of one single cube only. It consists of
whatever the end is. Now there will still, however, be so many
faces outwards. Well, to answer your question it seems to me that
there is at least, there is probably one burr to each face but there
are some clinging to the edges of the cube, as well. It is not only
to the face.
DDL- Now just before we finish, do you think you could
look at a burr and just see, describe a burr in some detail.
GH- Yes, try. (VLP) A central axis and radiating much
smaller rods of force - somewhat like the way the feathers are
attached to an arrow, but more because there are only two or three
of those. But that is the arrangement, as far as I can see.
DDL- Is the rod revolving? Are the feathers revolving?
GH- The first impression is of out-shooting. And of force
along these feathers, like the quill of feathers, quills of
feathers; rushing force. This particular atom, if it's an atom, is
very dynamic, tremendously forceful and powerful, compared to the
quieter, but of course inwardly very dynamic, but relatively quieter
DDL- Would you say there was anything suggesting a
brilliant bead on this?
GH- Brilliant what?
DDL- A brilliant bead. Dot of light like a vitality
globule, on this burr anywhere.
GH- The whole thing, it's curious that I should have seen it
all as dark. But now I come to focus on to a burr, now it is all
brilliant light. White light. Quicksilver-like light.
End Cassette 14B(?) Start Cassette 15A(?)
Continue with V/1/GL
GH continues examining Glucose.
GH- Would you like me to describe in retrospect this whole
experience since I came to the burr? The tape ran out and we
missed my description which you wrote, but as I remember it, I
was watching aggregations of the cubes of carbon in a
compound, sugar, and I had noticed that at the ends of the lines
of cubes which went out from a central group of cubes, a kind of
discolouration seemed to occur. On close examination, as
directed, I saw that this was caused by the attachment to the
outside of these cubes of other forms. These, at first appeared
like animalcules, with spikes, rotiferae, and that sort of
thing. Then I saw that these were all, as it were, sucked close
to the cubal mass and clung closely to it in between the radial
lines. And that single forms which I said resembled burrs, and
we called burrs afterwards, clung about one to the face of a
cube though it was irregular and there were some happened to be
attached to edges and were touching the sides as well.
GH- Then I tried to find out what these burrs were and the
first impression was of a rod of very dynamic electrical energy
with lines of force flowing off somewhat as do the feathers of
an arrow. These were not feather like but like the quills,
alone, might look and these contributed to the spiky effect on
the outside because they penetrated the body of this form, this
atomic form. In between these I next was attracted to the
spirals of the oxygen atom as I've seen them in Occult
Chemistry. These are, and I am now looking and describing as I
try to see, these oxygen atoms impressed me by their brilliance
and by the fact that their edges aren't lines as drawn but that
round the outside of the spiral rods or tubes there are numbers
of anu following the line of the spiral like a magnetic
DDL- Getting dragged along in the wake?
GH- Getting dragged along in the wake. Then, I saw then,
that the force which makes this atom, or is its source, is
really welling up in the middle of it from a higher dimension -
jumps into existence into the middle of it out of nowhere from
the three dimensional point of view and then flows to form this
ray which I called a rod. Then shoots off from the sides of the
rod as I have described it. Curiously, the spirals of the
oxygen are not connected with this, not the product of it, but
have an independent existence as far as I can judge. Then I
began to see another substance. Another kind of atoms which
were much less dynamic and - and seemed to consist of some
twelve or so anu grouped together round a central anu, and
perhaps enclosed in a kind of skin, which might be globular.
DDL- Twelve and under or over - estimate?
GH- Let me see ... That will take some time. Give me time.
Now I would like to answer that. Just give me a little time.
-(P)- I can't say more than this, not more than 16, not less
than 10, as far as I can see.
DDL- Thank you. The rough relative size of an oxygen
spiral compared to one of these atoms?
GH- To the total burr? Oh, to one of these little atoms. I
see. Oh, I can tell you that. Much larger. The small ... The
last described ... about one and a half spirals. Does that
DDL- You mean the group of 16 or so anu are approximately
the same size as one and a half of the spirals of an oxygen?
GH- As far as my limited powers enable me to compare.
DDL- You mean one and a half turns of a particular
DDL- But the oxygen is much bigger than one of these.
GH- Yes, that is what I mean. But supposing there are
twelve spirals ... twelve rounds or turns of the spiral then,
and it happened that these were arranged laterally or vertically
beside it for the purpose of measurement then each of these
globules, or whatever they are, would occupy about one and a
half rounds or parts of the spiral, turns of the spiral.
DDL- And how many spirals would make up a face of a cube?
GH- Better bring some cubes over! Just a moment. -(P)- I
am tiring, but I will say tentatively, you had better ask me
another time when I am fresh, but I believe that three spirals might
be contained one on top of the other inside a cube, and that is only
the length ways, the length, the axis ...
DDL- I am just going to ask you one question that you can
dismiss if you like. What happens if by an effort of will you
try and separate a burr from the face of a cube?
GH- Right. -(P)- Nothing. I can't. My will force goes
through it. It doesn't move it.
NOTE: (Curtains opened, and discussion follows)
DDL- Those globules are hydrogen atoms.
DDL- Can you remember before it goes out of your mind, a
rough proportion of the number of globules ... to the oxygen?
GH- No. You must ask me that when I am looking.
DDL- You can't remember whether it's say 20 ...
GH- Just a minute. Let me see. This is all retrospective.
Just a moment. Many more of course. I really can't say. I don't
know that. You will have to ask me when I am in there.
DDL- Would you like to glance at a diagram?
GH- Yes, yes I would now - now that I am not being
conditioned by anything. Always let me go blind, will you? I don't
want to be conditioned because I have got to resist things then.
Just show me once - just show me only the things which I seem to
have seen, if you can limit it. Perhaps the carbon.
DDL- A drawing like this may be entirely different from
what you saw ... Does that give you an idea of it? (Showing OC
fig 118, top left)
GH- That's it!
DDL- Well now, there you see it is not a cube, it's an
octahedron. There are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 sides.
GH- Oh, well really. Then I was wrong. That's what I was
DDL- That's what I remembered. It isn't six it's eight.
GH- How interesting. I think that explains where I kept
seeing the corners and the sides smoothed ..er .. at the very last
examination I was seeing - I wouldn't allow my consciousness to see
other sides, I saw cube. And yet I kept seeing an angle where the
corners should be. However the radial idea is the same.
DDL- That's what put that into your mind. Interestingly
enough the same thing happened to me. I remembered that diagram as
a cube with funnels coming out of it, whereas it isn't, it's an
GH- That's how I saw it, definitely, that's a perfect
picture of what I saw. Discussion of fig 118 etc ... Well, my very
first sight, as I told you, was like the cheeses in round box.
DDL- Yes, there you are. There are your funnels looking
like cheeses. (top left, fig. 118). (mutter, mutter).
DDL- That is the end of the morning session during which
you looked at the diamond, graphite and glucose.
GH- [ ... ] to my first impression, I must follow that
modification. Not push it aside. Now even up to the very end,
there, when I looked back at the cube, you said to me, well what
about how many oxygens to a cube, again I saw this, what I call
chamfered effect of the corners and the sides then - of the edges.
Now if I had paused and studied there, I might have discovered that
really it was octahedral.
JSEA- Yes that would have given you your cube on its
GH- Yes, on its point. Yes.
DDL- You were saying that the etheric tube appears to be
flexible, of course it must be obviously, or the movements of
your head would move it enormously over the range of an atom.
GH- No, it doesn't move. I found that out this morning. So
that if I move back a bit ... When once I am in focus, when
once I am really in there then it doesn't matter if I move slightly.
My consciousness remains in there. I- in this strange and
mysterious realm of flowing forces which is the atomic world.
Were there, - of course I didn't pretend to exhaust the analysis of
the glucose - were there other elements that I should have - if I
had gone on ... ?
DDL- I don't want to give you our ideas yet. What you
describe fits in reasonably well. You see, I started off with
the assumption that you would see separate molecules of glucose
like this you see. But you certainly don't see that, you seem
to see a pile of them muddled up together. Well, now I come of
think of it, why shouldn't you? They may agglutinate, in fact
that is characteristic of these hexoses, that is six carbon atom
things, that they form polysaccharides. You see ...
DDL- It is very interesting that you should - it is only
what you are looking at is lighted up as it were. Even a brilliant
oxygen atom is not noticeable when you are looking at the carbon
atom right along side of it.
GH- Yes. The field of focus is very narrow and small indeed,
and the depth, optically apparently.
DDL- Yet you can open it up.
GH- Yes, I can open it up.
DDL- Once you decide to open it up, you can.
GH- Yes, yes apparently. I am feeling my way. I am new to
this now. You see, I am very much feeling my way. What were
you after, what was your line of interest when you said, try and
apply your will and see if you can disconnect?
DDL- Well, CWL does do that in some cases. But also I
thought it might - It was just speculation, I thought you might
distort the shape of a cube or anything. It is surprising to me
that you can look at an anu - can you see on occasions the
actual spirillae of the anu?
GH- Yes. But I have to - I've got to concentrate on anu
DDL- But how is that you can see when it is moving at a
speed equivalent to 10,000 miles an hour?
GH- Yes, but when you get a thing, I don't know but when you
get an object under study at the end of your tube it becomes
still for you.
DDL- In effect then, our consciousness moves with it.
GH- I should think so. I don't know it is not conscious on
DDL- And is that part of the difficulty of looking at two
anu? Because they are moving relatively?
GH- Yes, I think so. I should say so. In an untrained
inexperienced person like myself, I suppose so. But I noticed that
before. Like, when once I get an object in the field of focussed
clairvoyance, I can study it as if it were still.
DDL- Can you turn it upside down to yourself, if you wish
GH- No. I don't think so.
DDL- Can you rotate it?
GH- I haven't tried moving them. I can hold them still, or
they get held still.
DDL- Can you think of yourself as walking round and
looking at the other side of it? That might be a more satisfactory
GH- Yes - I don't know about that.
DDL- Now you might try that sometime. That would, for
instance, have avoided your describing them as cubes.
GH- I don't though - I get it in vision, there it stays and
that's it. But you see I was feeling towards it, because I
described some of the cubes being on their points.
JSEA- I was wondering if it would be better if David were
able to ... if there is something that he is after, if he would
say, no not that, this.
GH- Oh, very much.
JSEA- Because David is inclined not to direct the
GH- No. It is easier for me. But not until I have said
enough to make it clear that I am onto what is relevant.
DDL- The difficulty about this is, now say I had directed
you a bit more, as it happened, you didn't suddenly find that they
GH- No quite so.
DDL- Anything I directed you to do - I am putting forward
- I may create a mental barrier to prevent you seeing it as it
GH- Yes, true.
DDL- For instance, I tried - not - Well I didn't mention
how many atoms there were or should be in one of those lines. I
thought of them as single lines. And if I direct you, thinking all
the time of single lines, when in point of fact there are groups, I
GH- Condition me.
DDL- Condition you and introduce a lot of muddle. Later
on, when we've got more experience.
Evening of 13/3/57:
GH- I am asked to discuss the possibility of developing
1957-03-14 at 31 Hospital Road
diamond, lead pencil, D-glucose
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION at 31 Hospital Rd on 14th March, 1957.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) Jack Askew (JSEA) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL- On this card in front of Mr Hodson this morning is a
diamond ring, as piece of lead pencil, and some commercial glucose
D, which he is going to re-examine in the light of his work done
GH- ... (LP) My first two impressions, this morning, on
appearing to achieve penetration with a very high order of
magnification into the diamond in the ring, are first and definitely
a system of diagonally inter-related groups of four funnels
radiating from a common centre. Then I also receive the impression
of being in the presence of geometrical forms whose edges, whose
sides are by no means as real in terms of positive existences as
funnels. They are like stretched substance, or conditions of
tension rather than actual existences, the subsidiary effect set up
by the play of interior and presumably external forces. I also see
strangely enough that the - that perspective definitely enters into
clairvoyant sight of this order, namely Ether 2, 3 or 4, at whatever
it is I am using. This, I must learn to overcome; not to be
deceived by perspective. I must say that again I receive the
impression, apparently wrongly according to CWL of 6 funnels
radiating from a common centre. Perhaps preconception from
yesterday is influencing me, but at present I can't break this down,
and I am going to observe it. for a few minutes in silence, in an
endeavour to check it ... (LP) ... Now at last I am getting a change
which is contrary to my expectations in that the position is
horizontal, and I unconsciously had expected a vertical. Now ... I
am getting more all round vision and can only describe what I see as
a kind of central ball which I must examine separately. Radiating
to the left from the supposed surface of this sphere ... and to the
right equally, pointing towards the centre of the supposed ball
meaning the apices turned towards it, are a number of funnels.
There is swift spinning motion of the whole system. If I were to
look from the right it would be clockwise, as I happen to be sitting
and looking now. -(P)- The sense of sides to a geometrical figure
is as yet not very marked, and I can't really claim to see one, but
I do see now that there were four funnels in opposite directions.
DDL- That is four funnels on each side making eight
DDL- Are the funnels revolving relative to each other?
Does the funnel pointing to the right upper quadrant stay like that,
or does it shift so that it is pointing ...
GH- I've got your question, I don't know. -(P)- I would
answer as far as I can that the whole system is circulating but that
the component funnels retain their mutual relationship unmoved.
That is, they move together.
DDL- Does, say one particular funnel point towards the
funnel of an adjacent carbon atom?
GH- I can only see one now. To answer that, I have to alter
the whole position which I will gladly try to do. It seems a great
limitation of mine that I can only look at one thing at once,
easily. The enlarged system fills the field of vision, though I can
diminish and observe a single funnel perhaps more easily than I,
definitely more easily than I can reduce the magnitude and see a lot
of objects together, but I am now going to try. Just put your
question again please.
DDL- We want to know if a particular funnel seems to
point towards a particular funnel or the next door carbon atom.
GH- I just then had a fleeting sight of pyramidal shape as
being associated with this double 4 system, on the outside of it.
But I don't pretend that I can yet see a full octahedron. I can't.
I am not forgetting your question. -(P)- I would say, yes, they are
packed, as it were opening of funnel to opening of funnel.
DDL- Can you see anything going from one funnel to the
next? That is funnel of one atom to funnel of next atom.
GH- I must look. Oh yes, now I am getting more geometrical
concepts, but as of separate pyramids ... There is flowing over the
locked faces a force, which is granular, of extremely minute bodies
which I think are anu. And this flowing force seems to me to be
like cement in terms of energy, and pressing them, holding them
together. That's all outside, in this particular sense.
DDL- Not flowing from funnel to funnel.
GH- No, no, I am getting onto that in a moment, I just
happened to notice that. It is advisable for me isn't it, to just
chip in with anything that I see, really. -(P)- I would say, yes.
There is an interchange. There is an efferent force flowing down
the funnel which does more than one thing. One kind of force turns
immediately at right angles and seems to set up the condition of
skin or tension at right angles to its direction of original flow,
and therefore it stays within its system. Another force flows right
down and into the funnel of an adjoining system.
DDL- Does that force seem to act as a cementing or
driving away force? The one that goes from one funnel to another.
GH- They interlock; the anu, if that is what they, the
minute granules don't seem to do anything to each other very much.
It is like passing your fingers through like that, through your open
fingers of one hand through the open fingers of the other hand, and
without very much making any difference. They seem mutually
congenial. Certainly don't notice anything repellent.
DDL- Is it your impression that each atom, as it were, is
stuck to 8 other atoms?
GH- Yes. Wherever I am able to see a face. I confess I have
not seen eight faces yet to a single system, but that where there is
a face, I can see two now for instance, they are tightly stuck the
faces of surrounding systems. But they are not touching.
Definitely I can see that, because this force that I described is at
right angles to each axis and funnels is flowing between them. It
consists of anu. It is a very fine energy; finer than the skins of
funnels, finer than ... some of the forces, finer than some of the
little points inside the funnels, and ... er ... it's a very fine
DDL- It is anu, that is ultimate physical atoms, it's not
GH- No, well now that I haven't examined, I am simply taking
the smallest points that I see amongst numerous different
dimensional points, the smallest. And these are the smallest. And
they are flowing at right angles and they are flowing between the
adjoining and the apparently joined sides, of adjacent systems. No,
just a moment. No, I am only using etheric sight and therefore I
wouldn't see an astral phenomenon. I will try to, but I am not
DDL- Well, if it is awkward to shift never mind. You
would see though, astral phenomena in terms of force, wouldn't you,
rather than granular things? Couldn't you see, a sort of an astral
light by that?
GH- Well, the first phenomenon when you raise your
consciousness to the astral is colour, as far as I am concerned.
The thing becomes coloured. I would rather not do that at the
moment, for I am rather well focussed. For instance these little
dots now, I would rather like to try and analyse and enlarge one up
if I can get it. -(P)- No. Anu are finer still. They are ... I
think these are aggregations of, I don't know how many, anus to make
one little minute point of energy. But even finer still, I now see,
a kind of smooth all pervading substance or condition of substance
which - the particles of which are finer than these which I have
just been describing, was flowing between adjacent sides. No, I am
not down to any level there. They are molecules from that of view.
DDL- That's a surprise.
GH- Just a moment ... They are built of anus, but as ...
these ... er ... granular force which is built on single anus rushes
out and then turns at right angles, several coagulate, several go
together -(P)- I think it is true to say that, I am under
correction that, all this phenomena of forms and dots of force and
funnels and the resultant geometrical figures is pervaded by a finer
force, a finer substance with smaller particles still. (LP) This is
at the edge of the ... at the edge of the physical world where the
astral and the physical meet or merge each into the other end at
that point there, these smallest of all dots or points of force
which are not yet coordinated into any shape at all but remain at
that point, uppermost tenuity of physical substance, remain free,
like free elemental essence, and it is immediately below that the
dots begin to coagulate into slightly larger dots and so on and on
until the whole regular system begins to be formed. -(P)-
GH- Now don't interrupt - disturb me now, I want to follow
this through. Oh, I see. To put all this in another way. There is
a free floating extremely tenuous, extremely fine granular substance
or condition of matter, which isn't part of these forms at all. It
flows freely in between all interstices. It's loose, free, unused
matter, waiting to be created, put into forms, and that is rather
deceiving. I am glad I have found it, because I have been puzzled
by these still finer points of light which pervade all the phenomena
I have been trying to examine, and I think it is independent of the
forms. Just floating free, not used. Now watching it, then I also
see that from it there suddenly gets sucked as it were into a funnel
a stream of this force and that some of the minute dots coagulate,
but some don't. That they go rushing down the funnel. This is the
reservoir of matter that I am seeing. The free unformed -
momentarily unformed, then as I watch I see there is a sucking of it
into the forms, and it rushes down to produce the forms. Now it is
necessary for me with my great limitations to be on guard against
confusing this omnipresent finely grained substance with the
structure of occult chemistry atoms.
GH- Now I am open to - I am glad I got that down. Now I am
open to direction if you want anything.
DDL- Do the funnels have that stream being sucked into
them as well as the stream of the anu or whatever it is that they
are sending to the opposite funnel?
GH- Say that again please.
DDL- Do some funnels suck, and some blow, as it were?
GH- Oh, they suck at one end, that is the apex, and blow at
the opening. Now I would just like to go to the place where the
sucking seems to happen. And of course I am using extremely crude
terms. Imagine for example, what I most easily see; four funnels
meeting at, pointing towards a common centre. Now I have to modify
my statement, there is an inflow as well. That may be from the
other funnel, though ... there is definitely an inflow going on down
the funnel towards the centre as well as what struck me first as
being much more positive and noticeable and strong - the outflow.
GH- All right established, a two way flow efferent and
inflowing in the funnel. Well, I will look again some other time at
the very beginning, but it seems to me that the place where astral
and ether 1 forces get sucked to form this system is a centre at the
apices of the funnels. It wells up there, or it is sucked there and
then it shoots off at tremendous velocities, inconceivable
velocities down the funnel; and I receive the impression of a very
high concentration, concentration of energy, right there at the
inter ... what would be the intersection of the axes of funnels.
GH- Something's happening there in a minute fraction of
time. Something changes this free substance into a controlled
condition and it is highly compressed, terrifically compressed, and
it exists for a fraction there to shoot off down the system
immediately to be replaced by more and this flow is going on all the
time. It is a very deeply impressive phenomenon. It is the heart
of the atom and I am looking at, in the sense of its generating
station. It is not unlike, if I put my consciousness down a little
in there it ... yes, that is the very impression I get, a
End Cassette 15B Start Cassette 16A
GH- By the by, several times this morning, I have occultly
heard a humming sound in there, right in there.
DDL- Does the pitch vary?
GH- I don't think so, it is a hum. Would you like me to try
and get the pitch? Would that be of interest or not?
DDL- Yes, it would.
GH- I happened when I tried that, to find my chakra and tube
facing right into the opening of a funnel, which was like looking
into the petal of a petunia or something like that, although it
doesn't fold outwards to that extent. Strange flower-like this
funnel as if the up flowing currents and streams of molecules
resembled pistils or stamens. There is a low physical hum from
something isn't there? Not these knockings.
DDL- Probably the tape-recorder.
GH- Oh, yes I see. It is rather disturbing. [ ... ]
DDL- Could you shift your attention to the graphite?
GH- Yes I could. It wants moving, if you could just come
and move it.
NOTE: TAPE CHANGED 14/3/57 V/2/RL
DDL- Can you form some idea of the nature of the bond
between adjacent atoms. Now if I have understood you this morning,
you have carbon atoms, which have their faces roughly like that, and
funnels coming out this way. Now, adjacent funnels fit like that?
GH- As far as I can see, yes.
DDL- There is a two way force between them?
GH- Yes. Wait a minute. Yes. Well let me verify that, and
say that whether the inflowing force comes from the other atom
[other funnel], or whether it is independent of it, I don't know. I
merely saw that there were two streams of energy inside each funnel.
DDL- At one stage you did, I think, say that the stream
leaving one funnel appeared to go into the opposite funnel.
DDL- And part of it however, turned at once at right
GH- Yes. That is right. Yes, I stand by that.
DDL- That appears to suggest that if that is the force
which is holding the atoms together, that each carbon atom is
attached to eight other ones.
DDL- Now when we look at graphite I'd like to see if the
same thing applies. When you look at the glucose, if the same thing
applies. And if there is ... what is the difference in the force
holding the oxygen, the burr, to the glucose. It seems to be
different, or perhaps the same, or something like that.
GH- Yes. Right, I'll keep that in mind.
[stretched legs. Walked around].
GH- I am now going to try to see the carbon in a piece of
graphite. (VLP). I think I would rather postpone this. Try
another kind of research. Do you mind? I found it a little
difficult to get a clear focus in there and to get myself seeing a
confusion of funnels without any particular order and arrangement
and to get caught up in the confusion of forces and funnels which
are rather too irregular for me to date to speak. So I had better
try something else. Some tissues or something.
GH- After a break and a rest, I am going to try again to see
into the carbon atom in the diamond and clarify or verify or
otherwise an impression I received earlier but did not wholly
describe ... (VLP) There seems to be, I feel reasonably sure there
are two distinct phenomena occurring from the point of view alone of
the arrival, concentration and subsequent movement of energy. One
is that each glowing point wherever situated, free or in the system
as a component, is itself and by itself a point of arrival or energy
from a higher dimension into the physical, but secondly in this
particular atom, at a point where all the axes of the funnels would
intersect in the carbon atoms, there is just there a triple process
occurring of extreme rapidity and power. It is ... these are the
arrival, descent or upwelling (spatial movements are meaningless
here). It is a movement of energy presumably Fohat from within
outwards. Not an arrival laterally or horizontally, or from the
third dimension of physical space, but an interior arrival,
physically from nowhere, occultly from a higher plane, of a
continuous stream of energies from that plane which are focussed to
resemble the point, the gradually sharpened point, of a pencil to
the point itself. This point itself is midway is at the point of
intersection of axes.
GH- This arrival causes a swelling of the etheric double of
the substance almost like very, very minute etheric ball. Arriving
there it is submitted to an intense compression and forcing together
of all these minute, still minuter, super-physical particles of
which it consists, into which it is arranged. That is the second
thing that happens. Unbelievable compression. In terms of
individual particles, this compression is infinitesimally short in
duration, to be followed by the extremely rapid outrush of the same
forces now changed so that the granules are larger, for example,
down the funnels.
GH- Now, all three are continuous so that when one stream
shall we say - though there are no separate streams - when one
portion (wrong word) or energy arrives at the centre, is compressed
and shoots off, there is still compression going on because the next
lot has arrived. So that each of the three forces is continuous in
itself as a process; not forces then, each of the three processes is
continuous, though successive for any particular portion of the
energy involved. Now at this centre, there is a tremendous
concentration of power. It is not the same power. That is the
peculiar thing about it to me, as a mere layman. It is not the same
power at all. The principle of compression applies itself, or is
applied to, the immediately arriving force, which passes through it
and is shot off as from a gun. Like an air gun you see. Now I can
see better the funnels of the diamond - diamond - carbon atom. Yes,
I would like to keep this ball idea, though the ball itself is of
etheric matter, dense, E4 I think, and the funnels arise out of it
and go off to the - their various directions.
GH- And at the risk of becoming unscientific and more
mystical and occult, I want to say that down there, in there at the
point where the compression occurs, there is the heart of the atom,
there is the source of its existence as a physical creation. Now I
can see two pyramids, though they keep changing perspective so that
I will see what looks like two sides of a prism with the edge
towards me. That is what I tend to see most of the time. Two sides
of a pointed prism, a pyramidal prism, but the changing of position
is going on. I can see through to other edges in the distance and
the whole phenomenon has rather a prismatic appearance to me now as
I am beginning to see, I think, a little more clearly. Now, David,
if you have any more questions you want to ask me, I am in a better
position than ever.
DDL- That ball, that etheric ball that you said seemed
denser E4, at the centre of the atom, what density has the funnel in
relation to it?
GH- Very slight. It is like a dark heavy lump of putty
compared to the lightest kind of cellophane, or finer, that you
could conceive of.
DDL- Is the ball spinning on an axis?
GH- No, I don't think so.
DDL- Are there any anu visible in the ball?
GH- I must repeat, though I may prove to be wrong, and it
may be not fit with Occult Chemistry, but I can't help it. All
phenomena which I observe with this kind of vision is pervaded
by free anu not participating in the three procedures of which I
spoke, or in the construction of the design. Everything is
pervaded by free, unused anu so in that sense they are
everywhere, and therefore there in the funnel. But that isn't
quite what you want, is it?
DDL- I want to know if the etheric ball seems to have
some participating anu in it.
GH- As part of its construction do you mean?
DDL- As part of its construction.
GH- Ah! I can only describe it as blown up - a blown up
etheric matter. A small area of E4 which now by comparison with
what I am looking at, looks inconceivably dark and heavy and dense,
but plastic like putty, like heavy putty, it is the area of the
etheric double which is affected by these three procedures that I
have described. That is all. And like every other substance, it is
built of arriving anu. But I don't see any arrangement of anus to
make it into a ball, if that is what you mean. No. The whole anu
and subsequent molecular activity is different, quite different and
distinct from the etheric double affected by these three procedures
that I have described. That is all. And like every other
substance, it is built of arriving anu. But I don't see any
arrangement of anu to make it into a ball, if that is what you mean.
No. The whole anu and subsequent molecular activity is different,
quite different and distinct from the etheric double ball and all
that it consists of; it is another field of Divine activity which
would have to be investigated by itself. It doesn't participate in
any other way that I can see, in the production of the shapes of the
DDL- What is the radius of this etheric ball compared
with the mouth of the funnel?
GH- That I think - I can tell you the length of the funnel
in relationship to it. Let me see now. The outside of it, the
densest, - no the outside, the largest side of it - by the way it is
something like a Chinese carved ball, ball within ball, the
outermost ball is (the radius, not the diameter, the radius) is
about a quarter the length of the funnel. Perhaps. There I would
like to interpolate and interesting fact that when I was now
studying the ball, the more especially the three procedures going on
at its very heart, the central atom of it, then the funnels receded
off into distant space, so that I couldn't see the opening of them.
They just went right away out into infinite space. So that when you
asked me the question I had to withdraw till I could only see the
outside of the ball, and then I began gradually to be able to see
the end of the funnel.
DDL- Well then, the sort of inmost ball within the ball
might perhaps be a hundredth of the length of the funnel.
GH- Yes. Definitely yes. In fact I couldn't measure it. It
is so small. I wouldn't like to say about that, but it is of that
order, of that order. Very small indeed. Now I receive the
impression, new though I am to this, I receive an inner subjective
impression that it is upon this inner concentration of arriving
energy, that we might do well to carry out research, and that
possibly there might be something emerging which might link occult
and physical chemistry. Let me sit and watch it for a bit and see
if any ideas come. The pitch is far too high for - and it is right
beyond any physical plane pitch, of this - what can I call it? -
note, this sounding hum note. It isn't single, it is composed of a
great many different - micro-micro-micro tones, and it is however a
very definite sound. High up in pitch, beyond the finest treble. I
mustn't perhaps go away into this too much, but I do realise this
tone, which may be formative sound and have to do with the Logos
Doctrine, and procedures, is itself a note, a chord in the universal
chord. In fact I would like to suggest to our trained scientists
that they consider this question of the atom as observable,
cognisable in terms of sound. As also in terms of force and
pattern. Now anything else, or shall I go to the graphite?
DDL- Go to the graphite will you?
GH- Just move it ... Take the sugar a little further away
if it won't throw it off altogether ... Before I move from the
diamond, in case it might prove to have some relevancy, I'll repeat
that I am very conscious of outrushing forces from the surface of
the diamond, and that they well up within it. By the time they
reach the air, they are much larger than they were inside the
diamond as if some coagulation or other change had been produced to
make them a little more luminous.
GH- They are very nearly visible to the physical eye.
They're just up into E4 and 3. They are shooting out first as a
fine regular spray; through that shoot slightly larger particles and
go much further beyond that spray, and then dissipate. There is
also what I can only describe as an interspray activity. Little
flashes. Tiny little flashes. I can't say what they are caused by,
but they suddenly flash into existence. Little points of flash. So
that the diamond is surrounded by a spray of outflowing energies
like every other substance that I ever examined, but I am especially
aware of it as I am in this condition looking at a piece of diamond.
Before I leave that I'll just say that definitely some of these
radiations are not straight out. They shoot across the field.
There is a straight out spray, and there are some apparently denser
particles which go beyond it, a long way behind it. But there are
also some which travel across that at an angle, across that sprayed
GH- Now I am going to try to see the graphite, from a
similar point of view from the interior of it. -(P)- I have once
hit curiously enough between two funnels. So that I presume I have
hit a carbon atom but not at the same angle as before. The funnel
is very - the funnel in this atom is very much more ... in the
carbon atom wherever I have seen it - is the outstanding phenomenon
away from the centre. Far more obvious to the first sight than any
edges or sides ... -(P)- Now I am in a forest of funnels. I can
see them on either side of me - from my point of observation. They
are going off a little - diagonally on either side, as if I were
walking down or looking down a long row of funnels into
perspectively arranged distance. I see funnels now in other
directions and no sides or faces at present. Now - better direct me
DDL- I want to know if the funnels still seem to sit
opposite each other.
GH- Right. (VLP) Whilst it seemed so in the diamond it does
not seem to be so universal here, for some of the systems are edge
to edge like the edge of a pyramid, of two pyramids meeting.
DDL- Instead of face to face, as in diamond?
DDL- But there are some face to face?
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1957-04-06 AM at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei
a block of ice
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei on 6th April, 1957.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) Jack Askew (JSEA) & David Lyness (DDL)
GH examines a block of ice.
GH- Please tell me what I am to try and do and find out from
this cube of ice.
DDL- I want you to look into the cube of ice, see if you
can pick up the structure of a water molecule and then its
relationship, position, or any other way to other water molecules.
GH- In the ice?
DDL- Yes. I think the first thing to do is to pick out
the oxygen atoms, then see if you can see the hydrogen atoms and so
GH- Perhaps that top light could go off Jack. (LP) Is our
main problem to try and find out the difference between frozen water
and liquid water?
DDL- That is one. Yes.
GH- That means in terms of the co-relation and arrangement
with each other of the molecules and atoms, the packing and so on.
Cut the machine off until I give you a signal. (LP) As you know, I
am not at the stage of development and practice in this kind of
clairvoyance where I can be primarily selective. I just have to
look into the substance more or less blindly and describe straight
away, without reference to the problem, what I see. My ( ... )
experience, on looking into the ice cube, in that way, was to see
some of the shining spirals which I learn are oxygen atoms. First
of all they were by themselves at various angles, some vertical,
some horizontal, and some in between at various positions. They
were all moving about, though it is possible for me to get one
fairly stationary. -(P)- My next experience is of some funnels,
with the spirals in amongst them and between them. So far I have
found no co- ordination or pattern. -(P)- Now I do see a vertical
rod-like formation with rounded tops - top and bottom. This has a
disc round it through the centre of which it protrudes and the disc
has pattern in it. That is, there are moving particles in the
composition of the flat disc, which has depth, with the movement
making design. Now I see another of these rods as I call them.
They are transparent to me, and inside them there is very great
activity going on of those tiny specks which I have come to
associate with the anu, in intense activity within and in some way
kept within. The whole thing is lighted, though not coloured, and
somewhat glass-like. Now I - (That specimen then escaped from my
probing tube and left me with nothing to see for a moment. I took
my attention from observation to description. Try again.)..Now I
can see several of these peculiar looking objects which now resemble
a number of pillars, myself looking along their - along the space
between them, and somewhat diagonally. When I am concentrating on
these as strongly as I can, the oxygen atoms don't become visible,
as if I had to use two kinds of foci. Now I see - rightly or
wrongly I must say this - I see spiral movement round these rods. I
don't recognise these spirals as brilliantly lighted oxygen atoms at
the moment, but I am conscious of a distinct spiral like movement,
as if the rod I describe were inside a spiral spring, and the whole
is intensely vivid and rapid action, movement. No, I think that
... No, this is a single coherence, not a molecule I feel, and all
pertains rather to this rod. I see now. Sometimes the spiral lines
come together to form what on one occasion I saw as a disc and again
I saw as a downward pointing funnel - all forms being I see illusory
and caused by this rapid movement of force.
DDL- Not like a carbon funnel?
GH- No. No, I don't think - it doesn't look like it at all.
I am only seeing it sideways at the moment. Now, what do you want?
More particulars about this? Am I onto anything? Or can you direct
me at all?
DDL- I would like you to try and focus as for the oxygen
atom. And see the arrangement of oxygen as far as you can.
(VLP) ... (P).
GH- I can tell at once that they are in motion and it is
hard for me to find a stable design in their relationship with each
other - what I am trying to do.
DDL- Is anything sticking onto them? Can you see any
pattern of anu about?
GH- M'm -(P)- Extraordinary, the prevalence of this first
object that I have described to you, whatever it turns out to be -
it is evidently, if I am really seeing, a phenomenon of importance.
Don't want you to comment or have any thought forms if you can avoid
it. There is a basic form here. I must go on with it. I don't
know, my ego says it is so important, it is the lingam. That's what
I was describing. It is the - how can I describe it. It is exactly
like the Hindu lingam, and in dancing motion to some extent, with
forces playing in its magnetic field. Some circular - all circular
round it, and some apparently spiral. These are granular and I
think that it's anu going round and round in extremely rapid rate
laterally in relation to this upright. In fact it is exactly like a
lingam in fiery and continual but rhythmic activity. A horizontal
in relationship to a vertical. I want to go on with this because it
may lead me to something that will help me in later work. All right
with you? -(P)- Though I may be departing almost entirely from the
experiment I want to record a few impressions which may possibly be
only of value to me. But I seem to be watching the very dance of
creative life itself. The penetration of the horizontal by the
vertical and the phenomena which result. It seems as if this is the
first beginning of the formation of substance, and the, how shall I
say, atomising of free elemental essence, or something like that. I
will break off directly from it, but it is the most fascinating
thing to watch, because it's the ...
DDL- May I ask questions about it?
GH- Well, I just want to say one thing more, then you can.
The vertical is in constant dancing movement up and down, a very
small area of travel. At the point of intersection with the
horizontal, some kind of - well I have no terms but ... an
electro-magnetic added or third activity is created and anu shoot
out almost to make a fringe at times all round it - just where it
penetrates. -(P)- The particular one I am watching at the moment
is, I think, either open at the bottom or some of the anu escape
downwards through it, through the enclosing skin as it were; but it
is an entity, I think. Of course this is utterly new to me, I know
nothing about it at all, but I get the impression that I am
perceiving a primal entity of substance, and at the high, high
etheric level. Probably ... probably connected with the
very highest of the 7 planes, not that I am seeing there, but I
think that each one the sub-planes of the physical are in
correspondence with the similarly numbered major planes, and that
from the high creative sources up at Adi and Anupadaka flashing
direct down along the atomic pathways and sub- planes to the
physical, this force and creative like play and action is occurring
and becoming visible to me - from- at the etheric level. That is
badly described, but I want to record some of these impressions.
Now I see clearly, beside one of these things but in a totally, in
another dimension and denser in degree a single brilliantly coloured
oxygen atom. Yes, I am clear about it. It is different from those
I saw when we last worked together. (Just ask Miss Griffith to wait
quarter of an hour.) (Morning tea postponed) ... Well, what I
think I see is - I have got to say this however wrong it may be, I
have seen it several times, - like globules or bosses on the
spirals, raisings, adherences or uprisings on the lines of the
spiral. Very closely adhering so much so that whilst different,
being single and with this magnification rather hemispherical in
shape, excrescences adhering to the spiral lines. -(P)- Now I want
to know what else I am to look for.
DDL- I am not clear about the rod, the creative rod.
They are mostly vertical?
GH- All that I have seen are.
DDL- And they are moving vertically up and down in their
DDL- What did you mean by the impact on the horizontal?
GH- I don't know whether you can visualise the Indian
Lingam. It is a vertical with a disc round it. A horizontal disc
through which it passes. I mean that each of these rods has round
it a disc like that. I call that the horizontal.
DDL- The disc is composed of an appearance created by
GH- Correct. And I suppose it is built of general elemental
essence, but the vertical seems to have the effect of insulating or
separating a certain portion of that fee matter and causing it to go
round it, with a result that it forms a kind of disc. I am feeling
my way in all this, but this phenomenon has for some reason or
another presented itself very markedly to me. H'm. Let me put it
this way. An area of - I don't know what words to use, - free
elemental essence is penetrated by a short rod; the effect is to
produce in the elemental essence a collar round the rod about half
way down its length. This collar isn't really separated from the
free matter, but it's been given a kind of differentiation which
enables me to see as associated with the rod and as if it had an
edge, although it is made of the same substance as if the free
matter. Something has been done to it. It's been magnetised to
cause it to produce this visual effect upon my mind.
DDL- Like a ripple held by force in a bowl of water, say,
that sort of effect?
GH- Yes, though there is no such large wave as that.
DDL- What is the rod composed of?
GH- ... I don't know what it is composed of at present. It
contains myriads of anu. It is build of anu, which - or let's say -
of force or energy arriving from a higher dimension. Not any
direction, but upwelling from within to form a point which is the
anu, and this energy is arriving and arriving all the time and
forming these points and it is so arranged by some influence,
whether it is Divine thought or the laws of nature and number I
don't know, but these myriad points of arrival of Fohat produce this
appearance of a lingam. These points are in continual movement and
some of it is spiral-like.
DDL- This rod, is it about the sixth of an oxygen spiral,
or much smaller?
GH- Now wait a moment. See where my lack of experience and
training comes in. It is extremely difficult for me to choose what
I am to see. I will try now, absolutely to find an oxygen atom and
compare them. The tendency as I think I have said before is for
whatever I am seeing to fill my whole field of vision. But I will
dismiss the rod for a moment and then try. -(P)- (gap of 15
DDL- Now that you are not actually studying the ice, you
did say just a few moments ago that the oxygen atom seemed very much
denser than this rod or lingam that you were speaking of.
GH- Yes. Well may I put it, as if it were a sub-plane or so
lower - denser, -(P)- .
GH- One of the tasks you should set me, particularly when we
have some consecutive hours and days together, as a preliminary to
all of this work, is to learn to differentiate between the levels
and the phenomena on each; I should be able to concentrate
knowingly, at ether 1, 2, 3, and 4. As it is there is a tendency
for my vision to become burred by the intervention of phenomena from
another level which causes temporarily the object I am examining to
vanish and it has to be rediscovered, or not vanish, but replaced
with other phenomena which may be the higher condition of the same
atom. So remember that, if you would be so kind, and say "Can you
distinguish and describe the difference between ether 1, 2, 3, and 4
as you see it." Then I can work more readily. For instance, there
is a level of observation at which everything is anu only. I happen
to have struck that, the moment I look at this cube of ice. Hence
these observations. I am in the middle of the cube myself, so to
speak, surrounded by myriads of minutest points of rapid motion,
shooting off at incredible speeds in all sorts of direction, mostly
from my point of observation and around and over it and not any
pattern at all. Simply rushing minutest particles. Now that shows
no pattern. No forms. -(P)- Also, on the whole it is better for me
not to be told to try and see a particular thing but rather to
describe what I see in any case, until I have developed much more
capacity. -(P)- I am now seeing for instance a number of funnels
with a common apex - with their apices practically meeting - a
little bit reminding me of the carbon atom.
DDL- But different?
GH- Well, they haven't got the outward skin or whatever
shape it takes. I am seeing the funnels meeting, not quite. It is
a cluster of funnels. No, I don't think it is the same. Curious.
That is very interesting. I must draw this. A cluster of funnels,
and a cross of white light in the midst of them, the intersection
being the point where all the funnels - from which all the funnels
radiate. This is white, intensely brilliant force, granular, anuic
if I may coin an adjective, and - Oh! ... six armed cross -
seems to be the coordinating factor in holding the groups of funnels
in their pattern. It is of an entirely different order of density
to the funnels being a sub-plane at least, higher. Or ... yes ... er.
It is not visible with the same observation which first shows the
funnels but I think belongs to a higher order of matter, or density,
and then it shows itself as being predominant. I am not sure that
it isn't a separate form altogether. Just a 6 armed cross.
However, now I am seeing not that at all but a - yes - a cluster of
funnels. Is it worth my bothering with them?
DDL- Yes please go on. About how many?
GH- Funnels to a cluster? Wait a moment. Well, it is
interesting to me that they are arranged, apparently arranged on
diagonals, not on the verticals and horizontals but at the points
between, lines between. How many? One. two. three. four. - seems
like . eight, four of which point relatively upwards and four of
which point relatively downwards, but I am not absolutely sure of
that - whether there aren't any towards me. I also perceive the
phenomenon of a kind of ball of denser etheric matter, ether. 4, in
which the points of the funnel seem to be embedded.
DDL- Do the funnels look like the funnels of carbon?
GH- Yes. They look the same. But I am ignoring or not
seeing any kind of torsions, tensions to form skins or shapes, they
may be there, but I am seeing forces rather than forms ... Now
I am seeing that downwards from above.
End Cassette 17A Start Cassette. 17B
GH- Looks different. Oh no, it is another one, another
form. A ball in the middle of perhaps this denser etheric matter,
but funnels radiating from the centre, four in number and flatter,
and again the phenomenon of force shooting down vertically through
the centre of it all. This is practically cruciform. That is the
arrangement of the funnels horizontally seems to be cruciform. I
think, whether I may be either seeing the first one straight from
above and getting that effect, or another substance altogether for 1
only, now, see just the four funnels by themselves as if I were
looking down on them.
DDL- And this is in the middle of the ice block?
GH- Absolutely. Well actually, I had got into the water
then. Well, yes, this what I am looking at. I couldn't say in the
middle. Associated with it. Within its region or area. I can't
say actually within it. Oh yes I think so, within it.
DDL- May I add something to the top of the ice?
GH- Away you go. Add something to what?
DDL- The top of the ice.
GH- Yes. I think that will have completed ... Do you
want to associate the two or me to look at that now?
DDL- I want you to look at that one now, please.
(compressed tablet of sodium chloride)
GH- First thing I see is a non funnel-like aggregation of
anus, somewhat like a flattened sphere with innumerable little - I
think they must be molecules from their size - round its surface,
possibly more at the equator than the whole surface. The little
molecules are, of course much smaller than the central globe. They,
however, are geometrical, not as I thought, little globules, but
rather symmetrical, geometrical forms. I haven't looked into them
as to whether they have funnels or not yet. But - what are these
forms, adhering to the central or whatever it is made of - it is a
geometrical figure with faces - triangular faces. I hope I am not
conditioned by memories but it looks as if these little adhering
bodies are - er - very much like the carbon atoms I looked at the
other day. Though I am only seeing the outside I am having
difficulty in counting the faces. Looks as if they had been cubes
and had the corners shaved off, or what a cube would be like with
all the corners taken off. May be irrelevant and wrong seeing, but
it is curious how white this looks, these little objects. They are
stuck tightly onto a central mass which seems to be less ...
seems to be rather heavier. The points of ... have penetrated the
central mass -(P)- -(P)-. Oh, hullo, there is a cylinder - shaped,
cylindrical object, yes a cylindrical object with radiations top and
bottom. Now, what am I to do? Go on exploring or just stop or
DDL- No. I want you to - er - Those little cubes. I
wonder if you could increase the magnification on them?
GH- You mean ... Yes. Do you want me to look inside
DDL- Yes, those little white cubes. Could you increase
and see their structure?
GH- Oh yes. Yes. It is our familiar funnels radiating from
the centre. Now did you say magnify? Do you want dimensions to
compare with something?
DDL- No. I want to know roughly how many funnels, the
same sort of number or many more? or just ...
GH- Wait a moment. I happened to see it in plan then. It
was four on the flat plane at the diagonals. -(P)- Well I will
describe this phenomenon which doesn't seem to gear in with anything
but I see it and even after trying to penetrate it, it seems to be a
persistent phenomenon. Supposing I were seeing four funnels in plan
from the diagrammatic point of view, which I am, so that I tend to
say at the moment without a full counting and investigation, four
radial funnels. Now rising up from the middle, another structure
altogether which is like a closed flower bud.
DDL- Examine that closely.
GH- And wait a moment, it rises out of a sphere which is at
the place where the funnels meet. When I look at this the funnels
grow darker, which probably means - I mean actually in shading -
which possibly means a lower density again or a later expression of
force compared with this that I am seeing. There is definitely a
structure inside the bud-like - curiously rather like a tulip bud,
like . er . definitely skin closed form rising up from the centre.
In the middle of it ... it is very complex. Well, you know when
you light a circular wick in a paraffin lamp, and it hasn't been
very absolutely carefully trimmed or the degree of saturation of
paraffin is unequal and you get a ring of flame but it is not level
as it later becomes. There are points up above the rest, it looks
like that. At the place where the bud-like form leaves the central
sphere or globe. Now these are like, they are inside the bud and
they look like separate petals inside it and they are built of
energy rushing up from the centre and escaping, flowing out and they
mostly are pointed. Now down in the middle the flower like
suggestion is strengthened. I am looking down now instead of from
the side - deep into that ring - it is composed of a very large
number of minute bodies, larger much than the anu. Hm, it is like -
the whole phenomenon looked down from above is something like
looking down into a ripe sunflower where the seeds have formed and
are all clustered. Something like that, I see -(P)- in fact, it is
not unlike the fairly typical glass which is put over a paraffin
lamp with a circular wick and comes together near the top only in
this case there isn't the furtherance of a cylindrical finish, but
rather, nearly coming to a point. The Fohatic activity in this
inner form is simply tremendous.
DDL- That's the tulip bud?
GH- Yes. That's the tulip bud. Compared to it funnels,
though themselves dynamic in the extreme, are relatively quiet.
DDL- Is there only one tulip bud?
GH- Well I am looking at the upper you see. I have now got
the whole thing enlarged so much that it fills my vision and I - I
only see one. Shall I say that, now. I only see one now. Whether
there is a reproduction of all this down below pointing downwards, I
am not prepared at the moment to say. -(P)- I have gone back to
where my attention is drawn so much, and that is this area where the
apices of the funnels - points of the funnels all point. There anu
are appearing, in, as far as I am concerned, completely countless
numbers. They - many of them, I don't think all, some go free, they
all shoot outwards and many of them go down the funnels. They may
even form the funnels, but they rush down and flow out at the other
end. My impression, right or wrong is then of this: four funnels
with a vertical tulip-like form much nearer the source of force.
-(P)- Now anything else?
DDL- Could we look at one of those funnels and see if it
is similar or different to a carbon funnel?
GH- Well, can you make this little thing stand up? I
wondered why I was seeing it differently, it's fallen down. Can you
have it away from the water and the ice, or do you want this
juxtaposition? (rearrangement). Won't be able to go on much
DDL- Well, if you want to stop now just stop.
GH- We'll just see who I am ... All I can say is
that this cluster of funnels looks to be similar to the same cluster
I first described in the ice. As far as I can say. I am more
funnel conscious this morning that I am form conscious. But there
is either an addition or another element attached to it, surely,
this is a molecule formed by the - I hope it is because that will
help me to know what a molecule looks like - formed by this tulip
effect and the funnel effect blended. They seemed to be so
different. I described the difference of being a difference of
level or density in the four ethers, but it may be a different
quality of a different substance. That I don't know.
GH- That's all for this morning, David.
DDL- Right. I'll shift that away. I want you to rapidly
glance at this and see if it is anything like it or not. I don't
want you to read it, just say ...
GH- No. Cover it up then. Yes. I won't look ...
I can tell you that that's just like it.
DDL- What about this one?
GH- Yes. Just like it.
DDL- Would you like ...
GH- I'm not going to look, no, that's what I saw, only I saw
it as it were in plan, diagram. Mm, now what else. I don't want to
get any preconceptions. What do you want to know more?
DDL- I want you to say whether it was more like the first
or the second of two things that I am just going to show you
DDL- It is more like that one or this one?
GH- Oh, there are my tulips! I certainly saw the tulips,
now you want the plan. The first sight in plan was like this one,
exactly. But then I later saw a tulip. That's all I can say. I
didn't know there was a tulip in Occult Chemistry.
DDL- Well now. Mr Hodson won't look at those diagrams
closely so as not to condition himself. The substance he was
looking at was a block of compressed sodium chloride.
[1980 - DDL: One of these diagrams was certainly fig.
165 in OC]
1957-04-06 PM at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei on 6th April, 1957.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) Jack Askew (JSEA) & David Lyness (DDL)
(Without GH knowing what is in the bottle, he was asked
to examine glacial acetic acid, and dilute acetic acid, in two small
bottles adjacent to each other.)
GH- I believe I have penetrated through the glass, and the
insistent sodium dumbbells or whatever they are, which look like a
long corridor of pillars, into the liquid - I think so. My first
impression inside the middle of the liquid was of a long rod ...
. with a pyramid at each end. I am seeing only almost solid three
dimensional figures, at first, apart from the extraordinary turmoil
of anu - I presume they are - all round in and radiating from the
liquid. he size of the pyramids, relative to the length of the rod
from base to base is about one to five. The rod, the interior of
which is slowly becoming visible, has in its very middle a radiating
centre of energy which seems to be the centre of the figure. At
this point another rod goes off at right angles in the direction
away from me as if adhering to or arising out of it. The energy is
flowing up and down the first rod which was vertical as I happened
to strike it, and also up and down the one away from me which is
horizontal and at the far end of it I think I perceive another
pyramid or pyramidal form - I mean a geometrical figure with an
apex, sides and a base and into the base is fitted or attached the
rod. There are others. There is ... there are others of this
peculiar formation and I don't think the ones attached to the first
rod I saw have anything at the end where they are attached. I now
perceive that this first rod has another rod extending away from
this same centre as the horizontal one but upwards at an angle of 45
degrees and also with an end to it.
GH- Now about in this liquid there are other similar but not
exactly the same formations ... yes, m'm ... there is
another rod attached to the other side of the central first rod
described, half way up about between the centre and the top pyramid,
and it goes off at an angle also upwards and has an end to it.
Presumably the same as I said, I only see the rod at the moment.
The end figures at the rods are all connected by a current of energy
flowing between them ... I think I am right. There is
another rod going off from this central rod on the lefthand side,
that is the opposite of the first two divergent ones and pointing
downwards, perhaps not quite at 45 degrees. Now I am getting a sort
of figure. It is moving so ... yes, I see, I think all this
makes up one substance. The central rod, radiating rod somewhat as
I have described with forms of a geometrical type at the ends. Now
these geometrical figures are either caused by or represent force
flowing up the rod and out at the top and then almost laterally at
right angles flowing outwards. Yes, something of the kind ...
GH- The oxygen spirals are visible around - I don't mean
spiralled round - but in and about the location of this queer shaped
odd figure - they move all round in and out amongst the rods and
tough and then go on - touch and then go on. One has now been
almost sucked to the central vortex from which the other rods
radiate from the middle. I wish to say that I am not sure that the
third rod which I have described as going off to the left now from
the centre but a little higher up, I think they all go off from the
centre and that may have been possibly not clearly seen ... The
oxygen atoms keep clinging to this figure for ... briefly,
almost as if they were live fishes, and they cling for a time and
they go again. the fields of force are playing from these rods, of
course, energy is pouring out from their sides generally, as well as
up and down them, giving them an almost furry look, though that
simile is far too crude of course.
GH- In the middle of the pyramids there is a centre of
upwelling and arriving energy and from which, I think, the familiar
funnels seem to radiate, rather like half a carbon atom. Though I
am not utterly sure of the number of sides. It is strange - some of
these oxygen spirals try to get, or seem to try to get sucked up
into the pyramids, but I don't think they penetrate. They get - the
place where the rod goes into the base and then they cling - hold
there and perhaps partially enter but don't wholly do so as far as I
can see. I don't see one inside anyway at present, up to now.
There are a lot of this arrangement of rods and geometrical figures
at the ends of them about, in the far distance I see some, and the
oxygen spirals doing the same thing moving about and clinging, being
sucked to them as if by magnetic attraction. But they seem to lose
that affinity and float off again as if ... what ... some
charge had been discharged and then the attraction, the chemical
affinity abated for a time, or something like that seems to be going
GH- Now, in amongst this, I keep receiving the impression of
looking down into a vortex as if some ... er ... loose,
funnel-like, somewhat funnel-like form. Several of them are
floating about but they don't seem to be attached to anything, and
they're perhaps much wider at their mouth than the funnels I have
seen up to now. They are hard to see at the moment, but they keep
floating into vision - I see the efferent ... the end of them,
getting the impression of a spinning opened rose ... flower,
then it's gone again, another floats in and is gone again. It is in
movement all the time ... There are quite a lot of these figures
moving about. They are much less stable, it seems to me as far as
their nature and stability are concerned. Perhaps that is because
they float into my vision like a goldfish out of the back of an
aquarium in darkness, momentarily up into the light so it can be
seen, though of course they always seem to face to me the open mouth
of a funnel or an opened rose. They are spinning rapidly. Oh, well
the oxygen atom is all over the place now and I have got more
clearly, a vision of it. It is both free and occasionally caught
into affinities and sucked towards these forms - stalls and sticks a
bit, blends and goes in or apparently through and out again,
maintaining its very distinct integrity all the time.
GH- The rod, to go back to the other figure, has a number of
- has a pattern inside it. Forces are flowing up and down but there
seem to be distinct - what shall I say - very, very minute centres
of force. I don't know whether they are relatively stationary anu,
but they seem larger. Shall I say relatively stationary
aggregations of anu in these rods. Some above the centre and some
below. The centre itself is very active. Force is welling up in
the middle and radiating out as well as up and down inside the rod.
Now there is such a lot of movement and variety of arrangement and
shape, of whatever it is that I began to describe, that I don't
think my first description is to be taken as constant because I see
variations about. That is to say the way the other rods go off at
the sides, though the general principle remains the same.
DDL- I am not quite clear how many rods to a figure.
GH- Well, my first impression was of one central one and two
off at each side, and I think now at diagonals.
DDL- Is that like the sort of 6 armed cross, then?
GH- Yes. Well no, because that would be in three dimensions,
and this needn't be. Don't ... Oh, yes, you are right, it is.
I was seeing it in plan and of course it needn't be in six ...
. three dimensions. Up vertical, two diagonal up, two diagonal down
would do, but of course now I look more closely. Yes, I see, there
is a third dimensional effect. Now that is about all by general
observation. Do you want me to try to do anything more, or what?
Verify, or probe about?
DDL- Would it be hard for you to look over into the other
bottle and to see the difference? (GH had been looking at the
glacial acetic acid first).
GH- Oh, I'll try. -(P)- I must break. I'm full of that
End Cassette 17B Start Cassette 18A
(Discussion, with drawings, on arrangement of rods).
DDL- Now this rod, vertical rod and criss-cross like
that, is it?
GH- No. Two like that and two like that ... Correct.
DDL- That can be all in one plane, then?
GH- It could. But I am inclined to think it's ... I
can go back and look at that up, but I am inclined to think it
DDL- Well, if it isn't all in one plane, then there must
be more than three rods. You will I think find that there are ...
GH- More, don't tell me. Well, never mind - I don't deny
that. As far as I had spent time looking. That was the general
pattern. I want to add that my conception is that it's in three
dimensions and that some of the arms go away from me out of plan.
DDL- These oxygen atoms - Do they actually get sucked
through a hole ... ?
GH- Not entirely, they try to be.
DDL- They get drawn to the top?
GH- Yes, oh no ... I'll draw it for you. I watched
it very carefully. It was like little eels. (GH drew an oxygen
spiral, nestling in the angle formed by the base of the pyramid and
the rod extending downwards). Allright. For instance - oh where
are we, I want your figure. There would be ... the particular
thing we are talking about would be like this. And some would be
there, partly in and partly out. A lot floating loose, and then one
would almost seem to try to get in these. And then there were some
round here and so on. Then they would be repelled again or flowed
away as if there were an almost wave or watery-like operation - not
regular though - of the principle of attraction and repulsion
affecting different ones at different times. But there is where I
noticed them most, up at the base of the pyramids or whatever those
DDL- Do the pyramids appear more solid than the rods?
DDL- And the pyramids, is that an illusion caused by the
appearance of four funnels?
GH- Probably, but it was very strong and solid looking, and
the pyramidal shape hit me first, and it was only when I tried to
find out about them that there seemed to me there were funnels
inside which were formative. Now I'm ready. Try the other bottle.
It would in future be better for me to have the object to be
observed dead in front.
GH- First sighting in the second bottle, [i.e. dilute acetic
acid, unknown to GH] is of a modification of the rod figure. Now I
see a central mass with a number of rods radiating from it but each
with a similar geometrical figure at the end. The central mass is
in a kind of foaming, Brownian sort of a boiling movement, bubbles
coming to the surface and giving it a sort of a soft foamy look and
... Oh I see that each of the supposed bubbles is really a
minute rod reaching down the centre. Oh, yes, and the whole thing
is really built of a very large number of out-raying little tubes.
Oh! I couldn't count them, they are uncountable, but there are a
number of rods the same - I was going to say not dissimilar from but
I think the same as those I was describing before but in this
different arrangement now. Instead of having that centre or focus
within the upright main rod as it seemed or at the place of
intersection, here is this remarkable ... centre. Oh, there is
another - just draw this will you Jack. There is another one lying
across it at an angle with a central foam attached to it. They are
stuck together. And others. It is all - Oh, a number of them - .
... er ... what shall we say, with their centres adherent. At
this place where - I am taking a single example now - this innermost
centre where the force upwells is ... a tremendously powerful
focus of energy which is upwelling from a higher dimension and
appearing as a number of grouped anu and then rushing off in two
ways. One to make this bubble-like effect that I have described,
and again a lot of free anu shooting in all directions.
GH- Now these tubes of glass-like radiation which I have
called bubbles and they look like that if seen from the outside and
their ends only being observed, they are all the same but they have
a distinct individuality. They are in movement and round the edge
of the sphere of these bubbles and there is a fine spray of Fohatic
force. The ... the relative size of bubbles ... no, of
centre of bubbles to a single rod might possibly be as about - not
counting the radiations beyond a bubble - a quarter. That is to say
then, if the whole rod were four inches long from the base of the
geometrical figure at its end to its place in the middle of the
bubble mass, then the bubble mass would probably reach out to about
one inch. I am not absolutely sure of that. That is something like
- I am impressed by the size of the central mass. Now when these
figures come into contact they don't seem to touch at their
pyramidal end, but at their central points. They form groups and
connection. They hold - they hold firmly. Unlike the oxygen atoms
which appear to float into combination and out again. -(P)- I think
I have also observed free rods not attached to a bubble centre or
anything else, just a rod with a geometrical figure at the end and a
large number of these separated ... to figures moving about,
even shooting about.
DDL- At each end or one end?
GH- What? Pyramid? I only see one end, the other is too
far away, just a moment. I think I am right in saying that some of
them have only got a pyramid at one end. The other end has nothing
attached to it that I can see. These are rather like rockets, and
they are moving, not soaring or rushing so much rocket-like, as
moving about and blending and mixing with the general material. The
rods making all sorts of patterns as they criss and cross and move
DDL- Could you examine the pyramid closely now?
GH- Yes. I'll try to. -(P)- I want just to say first this,
that every now and again, particularly when I stop concentration
upon a particular form, I also receive the impression of a very
large number of these rods at all angles to each other and in
motion; whether they all have pyramids on the end or not I couldn't
say, at the moment. I don't think they all have but I am not sure.
That is another phenomenon inside the bottle, they all have pyramids
at least at one end. They are in movement. -(P)- I tentatively
say, that some of them have become detached from the bubble masses,
and some others become attached or reattached at their free end and
I am inclined to think that there are some therefore with pyramids
only at one end. At the point of the pyramid the apex of such
pyramids, there is an uprush or fountain of force like a volcano
erupting, not smoke or larva, but streams of presumably anu. At the
magnification I happen to be using now, one pyramid looks as big as
a mountain in eruption, and they are rather pyramidal - Mt Egmont
shaped. Yes, well of course these pyramids in their turn are
powerful centres of Fohatic energy and I see now that there is a
group of funnels inside with a common apex and the same phenomenon I
have spoken of before.
DDL- How many?
GH- Ah! You would think it would be so easy to say,
wouldn't you, but it is all in rapid motion. But I'll see.
-(LP)- -(LP)- Hard for me to say. It is three or four, and please
leave it at that for just now. Four is the more frequent
DDL- Like half a carbon? (ie 1/2 a carbon OCA)
GH- Yes, I think so. -(P)- This phenomenon of a sphere
built of tubes is fairly general, I keep seeing them apart from
rods. But whether I am merely not seeing rods or not I am not sure.
I saw one just now. It went rapidly past. Didn't seem to have any
rods attached to it.
DDL- There is nothing like the ordered pattern as in a
diamond or graphite?
GH- I don't see it, no. I do not is my answer. Allowing
for all I have said to you in the way of internal patterns it does
seem to be disordered, or rather in constant change. For instance,
now rods with pyramids on them floating about and almost dancing up
and down like this and going about and moving through the substance
all the time and dancing about. Then there will be a group of these
first figures described, some clinging together like that and then
going about, not separating. I don't say that. They don't seem to
be separating, they hold and cling together, interlocked like that.
Now that is enough? Do you want to go on?
(Original tape stopped)
DDL- Now I would rather have liked to have said "could
you find a - look for a carbon atom" and see what it is, how is it
GH- OK, but at end only.
GH- Allright, say that again.
DDL- Would it have incommoded you if I had said "Now look
for a carbon atom" and ...
GH- Oh, no, I don't think so.
DDL- ... see if you could find it?
GH- That is to say, this double pyramid?
DDL- ... yes - the double pyramid ...
GH- Or rather, yes, the octahedron isn't it? Yes. You mean
look for that. I think so yes.
DDL- It's allright to ask you a question like that?
GH- Only at the end. When I say to you, now.
GH- Do you want me to do something?
GH- It is much better at first for me to go absolutely blind
and tell you what I see whether it makes sense or not, if it has any
meaning chemically or not. I just have to tell you what I see.
Unconditioned mind. But then when I say to you, now I am free, you
can ask me anything.
DDL- You don't ever remember seeing an oxygen atom tied
firmly that stayed tied? You didn't notice one? They seemed to be
like fish moving?
GH- I'll tell you what I noticed. I would like this to be
put down. I forgot to say this when I was watching. With regard to
the relationship of oxygen atoms to other forms, this is what I
noticed. That a process of attraction and repulsion seemed to be
operating and that oxygen atoms were drawn into - oxygen atoms seem
to be obedient to a process of attraction and repulsion. They seem
to be drawn into close association with other atoms, molecules
really, cling to them, hold to them for a time and then float away
again, whilst others floated in and away again as if this process of
ebb and flow of attraction, holding, repulsion, affected the
relationship of oxygen atoms to other substances in a compound. I
noticed that particularly.
DDL- There is no suggestion of the oxygen being held in a
position in a lattice. It was free?
GH- As far as the particular substances I observed up to
now, it seemed to be free.
DDL- This afternoon you mean?
GH- This afternoon, yes ... Now I want to say this to
you. I do want you to feel free after I have made my observations
undirected, to, after that, whilst I am still observing, make me
check up, observe other points, if there is something that seems to
contradict everything, don't tell me that but focus my attention to
tell me to look at it again or verify or qualify, you are perfectly
free and I like to do that sort of thing only after I have finished
my own personal account.
DDL- Now the first bottle you looked at was glacial
acetic acid, and the second bottle was dilute acetic acid.
(Original taped stopped).
DDL- GH is looking at a solution of an electrolyte with
two bare fine copper wires. He is going to look at the solution in
between the two wires and then ask for the current to be put on.
GH- For the first time I think I am seeing, watching the
arrival of energy into the field of my vision - the formation of
bubbles and their disappearance. It was the first thing I saw when
I looked into this was a process very much like the bubbling in soda
water. I know this has little or nothing perhaps to do with our
inquiry but it is so vividly before me that I want to say that I
have seen it. It is partly like the bubbles arising in charged
water but of course they don't come to any surface and give off like
the arising of marsh gas. They just appear in the middle and grow a
little in size and coherence, and then vanish, and this is going on
all the time - tremendously, rapidly. All the time. I would rather
like, later on when the time comes to put the current on to see
whether that process is effected at all. It seems to be that I am
looking at the moment at the making of etheric anu. But they are
not related to each other in any way, neither do they form a pattern
or make atoms or anything. They just arrive and dissipate. Now the
next thing in terms of anything I have seen before that I observe in
this liquid, or think I do, is the oxygen atom; it has a rod down
the middle of it. -(P)- I can't - er I won't be able to ... to
... do more than watch, say one. But I would like to be able to
see a group and then watch the current do something at them. But I
can't do that at present. Would you like, at this stage, to try and
see if I can see a change? Would that be useful?
DDL- Yes. All right. (switched on current) Can you see
GH- Off again please. I must get back to the thing as I saw
it. Do a few on and off movements of a second at a time, when I
raise my finger. Not yet. Oh yes. Wait a minute, I am only
talking. I do see several together. Yes. I see them. I think.
Now! Keep on, on and off. -(P)- Now off please. -(P)- Now on.
-(P)- Off. -(P)- Can't say I saw much change.
DDL- Look at the lefthand wire and I'll leave this on,
and describe what you see there.
GH- On now, eh. (VLP) Off again. -(P)- Just keep it off
and rest. I must rest. -(P)- Now on ... Oh there is a locking
of particles. -(P)- No. Can't help you. Can't see very much
DDL- Can you see the bubbles actually arriving?
GH- Physically, or superphysically?
DDL- Physically. (curtains opened). (GH examined the
bubbles macroscopically and then returns to etheric
DDL- Could we have the curtains drawn? I don't thing
there'll be any ...
GH- You can keep it like that. Now is it on David?
DDL- Yes. I'll just see if I can see the bubbles. Yes,
they are streaming up allright. Can you see them?
GH- Just a minute ... Oh, along the wire up.
GH- Oh yes. I can see that - Oh yes there they go up to the
DDL- See if you can study those bubbles for a moment.
GH- Just the bubble, or its contents, its atomic contents?
DDL- The atomic contents if you can manage that. If not,
never mind. -(P)- No I am afraid I can't. I would rather not
risk error and misleading you. -(P)-
(Original tape stopped.)
GH- Whilst I did not observe very well this time any atomic
forms and changes produced in their relationship when the current
was on, I do think I see an effect more in the nature of an
inter-relationship between the two wires than a flow of force from
one to the other. I don't know whether this is contrary to
electrical science, but it does seem to me that an influence, what
shall I say, an influence which changes the relationships of
particles is emanating from the righthand wire. That is not the one
that the bubbles are forming on, and that it is taking - it is in
the direction across towards the other wire. There is also in this
righthand wire some magnetic phenomena, for instance there is some
similar influence going out to the right away from the other wire
and being absorbed into and I think, lost in the liquid. But on the
other way to the left from the righthand wire there does seem to me
to be a phenomenon occurring. I can't say a force flowing, because
I don't see force, but a grouping and holding together of hitherto
free particles. I mean free when the current is off and held
together in a kind of locked condition, in a pathway between the two
wires. That, I feel, fairly clear about. Round the right wire
there is a response to this, but whether I could call that a passage
of force from it to the other, I am not prepared to say at this
time. I see a great many of what seem, now I am enlarging the
magnification considerably, and see all round that wire what look to
be a lot of oxygen atoms, underneath it and all round its tip and up
DDL- That is the righthand wire?
GH- No, no. I have gone over the left now. Didn't I make
that clear. I finished with the righthand wire when I said I
thought that some current was flowing from it over to the lefthand
DDL- The lefthand bubbly wire has the oxygen round it?
GH- That is what I want to say. Surrounded by a great many
DDL- Do they seem to be the bubbles?
GH- Well, I was just watching now. They are not the
totality of a bubble. There is another something in which they
float as it were - exist. I must try and just look a little more
closely. I am totally ignorant of what the phenomenon is, but I
will try. -(P)- I may be wrong but it looks to me as if at the
righthand wire oxygen atoms are, if I dare say it, being formed, to
constitute - are constituent part of bubbles.
DDL- You said the right, Geoffrey, do you mean the bubbly
GH- I mean the bubbly wire. I am now talking all about the
bubbly wire. Sorry for the mistake. I have finished with the
righthand wire and am concentrating on the left one. -(P)- The
condition between the two tips of the wires looks to me like this.
You might draw this Jack. When the current is on, as now, I
presume, it is as if there were two rosettes facing each other from
one wire to the other and streams of minute particles are moving
from rosette to rosette, both ways it seems to me. Whether that is
electrically wrong or not I don't know, but I can't help saying that
it looks like a two way movement. Just break the contact a moment.
Let it be off a moment. Well, the left no, I am sorry, (It's
because I'm looking astrally and everything is reversed), the
righthand wire has lost its rosette and there is nothing going on
round it at all that I can see.
End Cassette 18A Start Cassette 18B
GH- My lefthand wire has not got a rosette now facing
towards the other one. Now I would like to see if I can watch those
rosettes form. Could you just put them on and say now. When I say,
wait a minute I have got to get the focus again. Yes now! Yes that
is right. That is what happens. A - I will draw this. Ah, now I
see something else. There seems to be some difference between force
flowing in quanta, that is to say in particles, from the lefthand
rosette to the right and the opposite. The ones from my lefthand
side are larger and more luminous particles. By the way I am
looking just about at ether 4. Perhaps a little above it. The
other interchange is of a very much smaller particle. The whole of
the wires are discharging too, a fine fuzz force, a fuzzy-like
condition being produced by this phenomena all along and all round
the wires on both sides when they are switched on. Now do you want
to direct me a little?
DDL- Yes I do. The fuzzy wire - you still see oxygen
being formed there? or appearing to be formed?
GH- Round my lefthand wire? Yes, sir.
DDL- Does that oxygen seem to be coming from somewhere.
Or it is being released out of something which doesn't look like
GH- Just a minute. -(P)- It is emerging, I think, attracted
towards the wire from the general liquid in which, before it was
blended as a compound and in some way is extracted and separated and
brought with some other substances close to the wire.
DDL- Can you see any dumbbells about? -(P)-
GH- I dare not answer that. It is so easy for me to say yes
to that, but I would rather not.
DDL- Well you could say there might be but you are not
sure. What about those small little atoms about the size of one and
a half turns of the spiral, any about of those?
GH- You mean those that I saw in a previous ...
DDL- In the glucose. Remember those little ones.
GH- Did I see them in connection with oxygen do you mean, or
on their own?
DDL- No they were in connection with oxygen.
GH- No, afraid I can't. I mean I don't say they are not
there, but I would prefer not to affirm it at the moment. In fact I
think I have done as much as I could do today.
(DDL's recollection on 3/5/57 was that the bubbly wire
was connected to the positive terminal of a 1.5 volt battery.
Unaccountably, he failed to record it at the time.) As a matter of
fact the drawing that did shows the lefthand wire was positive.
1957-04-07 at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION at 17a Belvedere St. on 7th April, 1957.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) Jack Askew (JSEA) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL asks GH to comment on his request to look for the
arrangements of carbon atoms.
GH- Yes, but I think we will then have to change the
approach and instead of my being told nothing at all and simply
looking quite blindly into a substance whether solid or liquid and
chancing it as it were and beginning to describe the first clear
atoms that I see, hoping as it were that what I describe will be
relevant - that has been my position all along up to now,
absolutely, blindly, not knowing what is there, peering into a
substance, and preferring not to be told what to expect, lest that
should colour or condition my mind, even though I have no memory,
except now of sodium and carbon, dumbbell and octahedra and some
other funnel shapes and of oxygen, I have no real memory of the
appearance of elements as given in Occult Chemistry. So I really
am, have been working blindly and preferred it, as I am all the time
testing myself, and my instrument; but now if you want something
quite specific, then I would like to experiment with being told
exactly what I shall see or not that, what is in the substance, and
what your question is. Then I will deliberately look for and not
take any notice much of other objects, is that acceptable to you?
DDL- Yes, that is just what we want. Now I have got this
diamond ring here if you wanted to refresh your idea of the carbon
atoms in the diamond. Is that helpful or not? I can't guarantee it
will look the same in these organic substance. Although CWL does
say that in these substances it should have much the same
appearance, although in some of them it is split in half as it were
at either end of an oxygen. I don't say that is so in acetic acid
or amyl acetate which are in front of you.
GH- Well, that is the subject of inquiry, is it?
DDL- That's one of them. Yes.
GH- Yes, very well. I would like to have the diamond.
Could you just fasten it between the two?
DDL- Now the further subject is this: we have acetic
acid, we have amyl acetate which is chemically an ester, and I have
some solid sodium acetate which is a salt, of an organic acid. Now,
what I would like, if at all possible, - the object of this is to
see the different ways esters and salts are combined because that is
one of the puzzling things in orthodox science, and in their book,
Wallace Slater and Lester Smith refer to this particular problem and
suggest that occult chemistry may throw some light on it.
GH- The difference ...
DDL- In the junction you see. You have described how
carbon atoms are joined in the diamond. So has CWL. Now, when you
have a look at DDLacetic acid again, this morning, I want you to
notice particularly the arrangement of the carbon atoms; and in
acetic acid there is carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Do you want the
actual formula? and the proportions?
GH- No, just those three.
DDL- In amyl acetate there will be only - I beg your
pardon - there will still be carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.
GH- Right. Now these strange figures that I saw with the
octahedron - of carbon divided and separated by, all I could see,
was a rod, with some peculiar forces and patterns in it. You
imagined that was a separated carbon atom imperfectly seen?
DDL- I wouldn't care to guess at that. It may have been.
GH- It was a very marked phenomenon, and I looked at it a
long time and it recurred and recurred. And it looked to me as if
the two pyramids were separated by a connecting current of force and
they were quite a distance apart as I drew them.
DDL- Not only that. Not all of these rods appeared to
have a pyramid at both ends.
GH- No, that is true.
DDL- Well, I wouldn't care to offer an idea about that.
I was of course hoping that you might end up by describing it like
that. Well not exactly hoping, but wondering if you would.
GH- Yes. All right then. (Tape switched off for preparatory
GH- Yes, I am looking into the diamond now and am seeing the
upper half only of a carbon atom. I first saw one face only, and
its funnel, but I now can see that it is one of a number with the
other faces. -(P)- (VLP) ... Yes, well, I am seeing the upper
pyramid, with part of the connecting bar of forces - I am not able
to see an adjacent one yet, which is what I want to see. -(P)-
-(P)- Yes ... Yes, I think I see that the first atom I happen to get
on to has others round it attached to its faces, closely, funnel to
funnel. -(P)- Not relevant to our inquiry, perhaps, but I am again
struck by the presence of intensity of concentrated force where the
four funnels meet in the centre. Energy is welling up there and
shooting off. -(P)- -(P)- My chief difficulty, my great limitation
in this study is difficulty, almost inability, to change focus so
that I first look at and discover an atom and then have difficulty
in seeing its relationship to whatever else there is. I am
practising that. It fills my field of vision and captures my
attention and interests me, and I become absorbed in the play of
forces and shapes, even to the limitation of seeing the upper
pyramid only. I have to learn to step back as it were. -(P)- -(P)-
Also pyramids, sorry not that, funnels seem to be so much more in
evidence and important than faces. Oh, yes, now I see several ...
. packed fairly closely together. I am looking at the connecting
bars, at the moment, of several, all in fairly orderly arrangement.
DDL- What do you mean by connecting bar?
GH- Well ... sometimes the two pyramids which make the
octahedron, seem slightly to part and a central bar of force hold
them together, and they close up again, and that sort of bar there
seems to remain visible, as if the atom were slightly instable.
DDL- Isn't that bar where the E4 ball was?
GH- Yes. That intense concentration of force that I referred
to is at the E4 ball. But rightly or wrongly, I saw an elongation
of it which looked like a sort of bar between the two pyramids. Or
rather, not between the two pyramids but inside them. I could draw
all this. But let me say this, before I pass away from this
particular subject. From the place where the funnels of the upper
pyramid would meet ... Oh no. The meeting place of all the pyramids
occasionally seems to become elongated to be a slight bar. I would
rather draw then go on talking.
DDL- The meeting place of all the funnels, you mean. Not
all the pyramids?
GH- No. No. Of all the funnels. However, that is the
interior of one atom, and I am trying to get this other. Right.
Well I think I can appreciate from the little I have seen how very
closely these atoms are together and I think I could go - You want
this compared with the position of the carbon atoms in the fluid.
DDL- In the acetic acid which I will now shift for you.
The same bottle as yesterday.
GH- Before I go on I would rather like to record an
impression which is becoming a conviction, that there is much more
to be said that I have been able to see or describe about every atom
I have yet contacted. I am aware of the very partial nature of the
description I have given, and some day, some time, I would like to
give myself up to a single atom and really allow myself full time to
study it and its implications, as if some great secret of knowledge
and the power and forces of nature is there waiting to be found out
and caught and described right in the structure of atoms. Right,
that was just a passing reference. Now I am going to turn my
attention to this bottle - acetic acid. - -(P)- -(LP)- ...
GH- Well the prominent feature, almost at once, is oxygen
atoms, closely associated with, I'll try and say in what way later,
the funnels of carbon. It is strange how clairvoyance works, and
you told me to chatter on and say things that I am seeing, in
preparation for a description. I happen to have seen a carbon atom
with the pyramids separate and from below the base of an upper
pyramid. How easily one can be mistaken. It looks so different.
The four funnels radiate off as ... at the angles we are familiar
with and the base seems to be very visible to me. I can't see the
other end, so to speak of a connecting piece yet. Just an upper
DDL- What's happened to the E4 ball then?
GH- Oh! It is not visible at the moment. I'll come to it.
I want to say again, that it does seem to me that the two pyramids
of a carbon atom are separable, and in this structure are pulled
apart. Spirals of oxygen are all about, those rods are visible.
Oh, they are not rods, well they are tubes. It's a tube. The
carbon - the ball is probably illusion, - the other day, just an
influence upon E4 by the intense radiation of forces where the
funnels meet. -(P)- -(P)- Well, rightly, or wrongly, I am going to
say that there is a spiral of oxygen in what I thought was a solid
rod, or more or less, in the tube connecting the upper and lower and
now separated pyramids. That, whether it is right or not, I think I
can fairly well see. Now, do you want me to see relationship with
other similar bodies? or look at something more closely? Or what do
you want now?
DDL- Now I want you to see if you can pick up a carbon
atom which is attached to another carbon atom, and which has some
oxygen spirals in relationship to it. A system consisting of two
carbon atoms with two oxygen atoms attached.
GH- Well, I wish I had said now what I saw. It was that
there were two spirals in the tube. -(P)-
(original tape stopped).
GH- Now you want to know the method of attachment, position
or relationship of two conjoined carbon atoms to each other. Am I
right? Well, it makes a very strange figure. It is in chains, but
they are attached at the faces of pyramids, the face of one pyramid
is in contact, magnetic contact with the face of another, which
throws the other, which makes the other off at an angle, the natural
angle at right angles to the face, the sloped face of a pyramid.
Now there are several of such adherences of single atoms attached to
faces of different pyramids. It is extremely hard to describe,
first of all visualise one carbon atom with the upper and lower
pyramids somewhat separated as I have been describing. Then on the
face of an upper pyramid the face of the pyramid of another atom
attached so that it goes off at the correct angle, whatever it would
be, upwards of course, at something like 45. At the other end of
this there is a pyramid, then there is an extension where the other
pyramid is on the end and then another attached to that on its face,
making another angle and there are several such attachments.
DDL- Are there any carbon atoms without the separation?
GH- I'll look round. I haven't seen any at present. -(P)-
I notice again the phenomenon of oxygen atoms, some free and some
attached form outside to ...
DDL- How are the outside ones attached?
GH- It's funny, they seem to try to get into a pyramid from
below the base.
DDL- Not lying across a couple of funnels?
GH- At the moment, the one I am particularly looking at is
more at the place where the funnels from. It's partly in there and
partly out. No, I can't say I see any lying across. This is only
an impression and it may be wrong. It looks as if there were some
suction, or I ought to say magnetic attraction perhaps, drawing
oxygen spirals up towards the funnels, as if they wanted to get to
that point where the funnels radiate from, that concentration of
light and energy of which I speak. Just there.
DDL- Then the spiral is still movable, it is not fixed?
GH- Oh yes it is. When it gets there it's fixed.
DDL- And it stays fixed?
GH- It stays fixed. Well, the one I am looking at has
stayed there during this conversation.
DDL- And is it sideways on or ... ?
GH- No, it is at an angle. I can draw it. I think I did
draw it. The same sort of thing as I saw yesterday, probably at the
45 degree angle to the vertical. If the atom happened to be
vertical or completely vertical, it would be below the base trying
to get into it or held there. I see now it is really held. Yes
it's held there it is blended there, partly with the connecting
piece of forces and partly with, in, through the base and into the
centre from whence the funnels radiate.
DDL- And the rest, the other pyramid of that carbon atom
- how far away is it?
GH- Wait a minute. Of course when I am answering such a
question and looking, it isn't even visible to me. It is way down
below the level of my vision. It will take me a little minute to
answer that question. Well I can only give relative, can I.
Supposing we were to take a straight line from the apex of the
pyramid to its base as a measuring rod. Now let me try and apply
that to the connecting piece to reach the base of the other. Take
me a little time so be quiet a few minutes. -(P)- No something, it
is strange, definitely now that you have focussed my attention on
it, definitely there is an oxygen spiral inside the connecting
DDL- As well as the one at an angle?
GH- Yes. I had the impression that the one at an angle is an
intruder, so to speak. A free one which has somehow got caught in
there or attracted there. Oh, this other is a very different
matter. It is an integral part of the whole composition inside the
DDL- And there is only one of it?
GH- Well, I am looking at another atom now. I'll tell you.
One alone has struck my attention at the moment. -(P)- About four
times - that is to say the line from point, from apex to base is
about, if I am seeing correctly. One, two, ... four, between
four and five ... the connecting piece is between four and five
times as long as that line. Now just a moment. I must say this
again, I have seen another oxygen at an angle connected to the lower
pyramid of its base, as if there is some principle involved there of
an oxygen atom attached there. It may be quite irrelevant and even
erroneous but I have noticed the phenomenon yesterday, and I have
noticed it again today. Now then, I am not helping you am I, with
regard to ... Have I said enough now about other atoms and
DDL- No. No. Keep looking at this particular one because
there are lots of questions I would still like to ask, if I may. As
I visualise it we have as it were, a double headed arrow ...
DDL- With, in the connecting rod, one spiral ...
DDL- And, at an angle where the shaft joins each head top
and bottom, another spiral.
DDL- So that there would appear to be three oxygens to
one disrupted carbon atom. Now, no matter how hard you try ...
Oh the spiral in the shaft - where is it situated?
GH- The middle.
DDL- At the middle, isn't there some sort of extra
GH- Yes, tremendous. That's what I keep saying. Something
like the same sort of thing that there is where funnels radiate
DDL- And you can't find anything resembling a funnel
GH- Wait a minute. It hasn't struck me. Now I am going to
stop and take a rest. I think I can fairly readily get back to that
now. Now complete rest, if you don't mind. -(P)-
GH- Yes, I, I ... wonder ... whether there are two
kinds of oxygen atoms, or is every one the same, because the one
inside the tube seemed different from the two attached at the bases
and others floating around. I suppose there is an account of only
one, is there? One spiral. All the same?
DDL- Well the spiral is a double spiral. And we must
allow for the likelihood that there is some water. These free ones,
these angular ones may be really molecules of water, and you don't
observe the hydrogen. That is a possibility.
GH- I see. All right let me rest and try and draw.
(Original tape stopped).
DDL- I have just been asking Mr Hodson if he could
comment on the suggestion made in the work, "The Field of Occult
Chemistry", on pp. 17,19 and 21. That is, what the occultist
actually sees. Does he see only etheric matter when he is examining
atoms, or does he see actual dense physical matter, which we might
call E5 for the sake of convenience - E5, 6 and 7.
GH- Without going again into the condition for seeing an
atom and looking at it from this point of view, I would say that,
when trying to answer the questions and contribute to the solution
of the problems put to me when substances are placed in readiness
for examination, that I see at two levels chiefly, and move from one
to the other. The subtler of these two reveals to me
End Cassette 18B Start Cassette 19A
GH- forces only, rushing, flowing forces and up and down
tubes or rods, connecting areas for example, down funnels, forming
walls of funnels and the whole phenomenon I observe is force- built,
obviously and clearly force -built. Furthermore, if I look into
this streaming force I see that it tends to be ... that it is partly,
at least, granular, consisting of very rapidly moving minute
particles. That is one level of observation in which there are
practically no forms with sides or faces at all. Now, if I want to
see faces, I then have to shift my level of observation until I
submit myself to the, shall I say, illusion of a face or a skin of a
tube, or wall of a tube and then having done so, I see the tube and
the faces of say pyramids or funnels as if they were forms, and I am
at a denser level of observation, and then when I do that the force
vision recedes into the background. It is not absent entirely, but
it is very secondary to the forms. And sometimes involuntarily, I
will apparently descend much lower because certain forms will appear
almost dark and heavy in colour about definitely preserving the
forms of Occult Chemistry, and I have presumed, though I haven't
examined or checked this, that I am normally seeing at E2, the force
level or rather, shall we say, force-rushing-energy at E2, and that
I come down to E3, at least, when I see the forms which the lines of
force cut or produce the illusion of, but their rapid movement; and
that I oscillate fairly freely and easily between those two. I had
thought also that if I want to try and see one of the granules work
if I may use the term, quanta of these forces, then I have to refine
my sight altogether and try and magnify one of these right up to
comprehensible and visible size. I imagine that then I am seeing at
a higher level still, somewhere on the threshold of E1, and into the
astral. Those are my general impressions concerning atoms at any
DDL- How definite can you be that you don't descend below
and E4 level of observation?
GH- I have never thought of it, but now you bring it to my
attention, it seems possible that on occasion, as for example, the
connecting currents of force between the separated pyramids of the
carbon atom in some solutions that, when I first saw and described
it as rods, those rods looked to me to be dark in colour, almost
black in colour. This morning when I was looking at the same things
I dismissed that effect and then perceived, almost ejaculated "Oh,
yes, they are not rods at all, they are transparent tubes really,",
So the only suggestion I could make, without looking into this
matter, which I think I can do, would be that, sometimes
accidentally, I might come very near to E4 and even physical E5; and
that blackness, darkness might possibly indicate that I have
unconsciously dipped as low as that.
DDL- Then you do think you actually see the dense
physical state sometimes?
GH- Would it not be vaporous, or gaseous, rather than dense
DDL- At the atomic level it is still dense physical.
That is, you think you could see something ... that would
actually affect a physical instrument directly.
GH- Don't know. Rather not say. Like to experiment with
that. See when I was looking at the bubbles on the positive pole or
wire in that solution yesterday, my chief vision, when I looked into
them, closed my eyes, when I looked at the areas round the wire the
outstanding phenomenon was of the oxygen atom, spirals, spirals
everywhere, coagulated together and separate so that I seemed to be
looking at a very high magnification then, of oxygen; I certainly
didn't see any bubbles. Only the spirals together.
DDL- Yes. Oh, well, we'll come back to this later some
(Original tape stopped).
DDL- Mr Hodson now has a bottle of amyl acetate in front
of him and he is going to try and examine the carbon atoms in
particular, to see how they are joined together, and according to
orthodox chemistry, he should find that there are a group of two
plus three carbon atoms with two oxygen atoms and hydrogen about the
GH- -(P)- -(P)- I am seeing a new form to me. Cruciform.
Facing me, as it happens, and distinctly looking like the propellers
of an aeroplane, with the boss, or semiconical cap at the end of the
shaft which is sometimes between them. -(P)- -(LP)- Yes. -(P)-
-(P)- Really it is an atom, consisting of a centre with radial
funnels. I know it isn't carbon, it's quite a different form, and
as I haven't see anything quite like it before, I fastened on to it.
DDL- Is the centre much bigger?
DDL- It must be some impurity then.
GH- I'll dismiss it. Now what do we want to find out about
the carbon atom? Don't tell me what is expected, but what kind
DDL- [Now 1979; I would not have let GH dismiss it. He was
probably onto something significant]
DDL- I want to see if you find the carbon atoms in chains
or separated, and the relationship of the oxygen to it. -(P)- -(P)-
(GH felt unable to proceed satisfactorily).
"Turn it off, turn it off".
[1981: DDL: I am sure now that I merely blocked GH by
asking him to dismiss what had come to his attention].
DDL- I have a copy of "The Field of Occult Chemistry" in
my hand, and I am just going to ask Mr Hodson for various comments
on certain things which are stated there. Now I am starting at page
10, and the statement is made "for example it may not always be
obvious on what sub-plane an aggregation under observation exists".
What would you say to that?
GH- Obvious to whom?
DDL- To the observer.
GH- Well in the case of CWL., so highly trained, I should
think he always knew on what level he was observing. I don't,
because I don't trouble to think of it though I have in earlier
talks, I don't know whether you recorded it, expressed an opinion
that I am in the levels of E2 and E3, in the main. Particularly
when faces of say cubes or pyramids and skins and walls of objects
are seeing, I had thought that I was down at the level of E3.
DDL- So you, when you see a particular aggregation, you
feel fairly confident if you think about it, what plane you are on.
GH- Yes, I think so. I would like to carry out some
distinct experimental observations, to see if I could describe the
differences between all of them, from this point of view. As I
said, I think yesterday, that seems to me to be a necessary piece of
research. So that the next time I am looking at an atom, and I seem
to be convinced I am really, got it well within my field of focus, I
think it might be useful if you said to me, "Now try and look at it
at the different levels?"
DDL- Good. All right we'll do that. On the same page
the authors say, "a further possible source of error in the
clairvoyant observations is the fact that the atoms are stated to be
in constant, complex and vigorous motion, and that they have to be
steadied by an effort of will before detailed examination is
possible. This very act may change the particular properties of the
atom with which the physicist deals". What do you think of that?
GH- I have no consciousness of making an effort to stop the
movement. It seems to me that it is as if the instrument of
observation adjusts itself to the movement in some way, so that the
effect on the mind of the observer is as if the object were somewhat
still. Sometimes when I am watching, say, the carbon atoms, they
will rock from side to side, and sometimes I will have the
impression of spinning, but by an effort of concentration which I
then make, not to stop the atom from moving, but to adjust my own
powers of observation to it, I get the object quiet and still; but I
am not aware of a conscious effort to hold an atom still. I must
say that. I adjust myself to it, then it appears to me as if it
DDL- So that it is really difficult for you to describe
relative motion? You don't know how much you are adjusting yourself
to the motion of a particular atom.
GH- No, I don't.
DDL- When you are seeing more than one at a time?
GH- No I don't. I will not start to describe ever, until I
have got the object fairly well defined and fairly still.
DDL- I wonder if that is why you tend to see only one
atom at a time, if the others are in vigorous relative motion and
you consciousness is adjusting itself to one particular atom so that
it appears still. What do you think about that?
GH- Probably, or rather possibly. I had rather thought that
I so magnify the object when I really have seen it, that it
practically fills my field of vision. I do also see, without
effort, omnipresent, extremely minute points, undifferentiated, all
the time, whatever I do, they are there. They have to be
disregarded sometimes. They are everywhere. I also, for instance,
when I was looking at that carbon atom, observed the entry into my
field of vision of spirals of oxygen. But not very much else. Now
when you said to me "How are those atoms of carbon associated with
other atoms of carbon?" it required a distinct effort of will, like
stepping back, so that the one object became smaller and I saw it in
the distance, how another was attached to it and another to that,
and so on. I had to make a kind of focussing of my vision much in
the same way as you focus a pair of binoculars at different
distances. But I frankly don't see many objects at a time and if I
am gong to be at all sure I must hold to one atom, though I can see
its contents and examine that at the same tim. Few instance, the
relationships between atoms, unless very obvious, like oxygen within
the connecting currents of separated pyramids of carbon, I saw that
very easily. I generally see oxygen very easily. It's ... er -
whether it is something in my own make-up or in oxygen itself, but
it is fairly easy for me to see; but apart from that, when I am
looking at one atom, I only see that atom.
DDL- Well at the top of page 19, this perhaps goes over
what we have already said but it says here "by clairvoyant
observation the OCA is seen first at the dense physical level. It
appears to have the same shape whether solid, liquid or gas. At
this stage the mere outline of the atom is seen and possibly vague
and hazy lights show up from within. In order to see groups ... "
GH- Wait a moment. May I interrupt there, and say that is
correct as far as I am concerned. That is to say the first thing I
see is an outline which, when I look at it, I see is really, first
of all it looks like two-dimensional very often, and then I get it
by concentration as three- dimensional. Then I go into it and make
a closer examination.
DDL- Well then, "a mere outline is seen, and possibly
vague and hazy lights show up from within."?
GH- Correct. Just exactly what I do see.
DDL- Would you agree with putting it this way, though.
"In order to see the groupings of anu within the atom, the observer
changes his focus to the etheric".
GH- I don't know. I had not thought that my first hazy
outline was so because of its density. Rather had I thought that it
was failure to see clearly on my part. And that all the effort I
make is to focus better the clairvoyant instrument. But I may be
wrong about that. I don't know.
DDL- I think this is worth discussing a bit further.
"This observation of the etheric content of the atom is analogous to
the observation of the human etheric forces-centres, which can only
be seen when the focus is changed from the dense physical to the
GH- Yes. Yes, I don't think I could see an etheric chakra at
all properly, unless I close my eyes, and I certainly couldn't see
the astral and higher chakras until I completely closed my eyes and
blotted out the physical altogether. All I would see, for instance,
at the throat chakras, with my eyes open, would be that there is a
disturbance there, that's all. A disturbance in the health sure and
in the etheric double. Some extra activity, not like that of the
general etheric double. That I could see with my eyes open, but
nothing much more.
DDL- Can you see when say, glancing at me, a chakra
easily compared to a carbon atom?
GH- Oh, no, much more easily. It is probably only because I
am new to this occult chemistry investigation, and that my powers
seem to me to be very slight and elementary and rudimentary as yet.
I think it is only because of that I find the atomic observation so
very much more difficult; I see chakras fairly readily.
DDL- But it is not a matter of magnification that is
difficult, or is it? Is the size anything to do with it, do you
GH- I think it is.
DDL- What I am trying to find out. Is it size or density
that makes the difficulty?
GH- Oh, yes. Just let there be a pause a minute before I
answer that question, while I think a moment. -(P)- I can comment
in this way. In order to see into a substance, solid or liquid, and
observe and describe an atom in it, of which it is composed, I have
to arrange that substance in a special position right in front of my
forehead, level between my eyes, and at a distance only of a few
inches. I then have forcibly to open the ajna chakra, and project
the etheric tube, and I must make that tube go through the glass and
into the substance; all of which requires great effort of will-force
and thought-force for me. Then I push it in and rather like a sort
of periscope working laterally, horizontally, I look around and, if
I am successful, after some considerable and intense effort, an
atomic form will be seen through that tube. Now all of that for me,
the life I live, and the rarity of such experiments and work,
obliges me to use a great deal of energy, physical, Psychical as
well; it's difficult, hard, very hard. Now, to see a chakra, is
relatively easy for me. I only have to close my eyes, focus myself
at the level, say at the astral level, and as I am fairly accustomed
to do, look at the astral body as a whole, which doesn't require a
great deal of effort, rather like letting the impression impinge
upon me than making a conscious effort outwards, and then having
caught the general astral body and knowing that I am seeing, I then
look at the chakra I want to look at. And all that doesn't require
very much physical effort at all. Does that answer you at all, or
is that relevant?
DDL- Yes, I [think so, thank you.]
GH- There is another difference, in my case between ordinary
clairvoyance, such as looking at a person's astral body or at
deceased people about or astral phenomena, and examining an atom.
And that is, the former can be unsought and spontaneous. It's not
altogether uncommon for me, when making no effort at all and not
thinking of the subject to find a presence, shall we say, in the
room, or out near me, out in the field near me, without an effort on
my part. I call that spontaneous clairvoyance. A Deva will touch
me, or I will happen to be talking to someone and I will suddenly
see the health aura rushing up from the shoulders and the head and
think to myself "how strong that is!" Or, in the case of very
advanced people, without looking a them at all, I will suddenly see
one of their chakras, they're most brilliant, probably the heart
chakra, again without any effort at all, what I call spontaneous
clairvoyance. Now there is none of that in trying to see atoms
clairvoyantly. It is only possible to me, as a result of a very
intense effort. -(P)-
DDL- We were just discussing the idea of the lines of
force between the anu being as important as the anu themselves. Do
you get the impression that these lines of force between the anu are
due to the anu or are caused separately, by force welling up
separately from the individual anu? (ie from an independent
GH- I don't know. Cannot comment. I haven't been at that
level and observed it. I don't know. I can't comment there. The
relationship between anu and atoms and the function of anu in the
production of atoms would be for me a very difficult field of
investigation, for the simple reason that the degree of
magnification is so enormously different, the result being that if
you were seeing one you would not see the other at the same time,
unless you were a very great occultist, like, I am ready to assume
CWL was. But on the occasions where I have, I think seen an
ultimate physical atom, it has utterly and completely filled the
field of vision, and I couldn't see it in relationship, even with
others, so great is the magnification which is required for me to
see it with the spirillae. And the effort is very great indeed, as
that normally I am down, I know at a very much lower level of the
etheric sub-planes and degree of magnification. And what I see are
only dots, dots within the general form of the atom. I call those
dots anu, but I am not saying that from direct knowledge seeing the
anu-like shape at the same time. I must say I am not. I don't
often receive the impression of a spring or centre of arriving
force. That I get often, and where there are radiations from some
particular point, I have the impression that there are there a
number of anu, and they are all serving as bringing the energy from
a higher dimension, Fohat, into the etheric physical plane from
whence it radiates both generally and to form the general pattern
and construction of that atom.
DDL- I understand CWL to say that the funnel, of a carbon
atom, for instance, is an illusion produced by the sweeping back of
millions of loose anu; and that the funnel (I am not clear how
he means this) has a certain number of fixed anu in it which work,
whirl, in order to sweep that loose anu out of the way.
GH- Do those sweeping anu then vanish out of the funnel to
be replaced by others who carry on the function? Or do the same anu
stay in there going on doing that?
DDL- Curiously enough, he doesn't say that anywhere. But
as I understand it, the inference that I draw, and I think I am
correct, it is the same anu that stay there.
GH- A few or myriads?
DDL- A definite number. I could, at a rough guess, say
70 for a particular carbon funnel. I'll look it up if you like.
(Original tape stopped).
DDL- Now what we are doing is going through the
typescript of 10/3/57. We are on page 2 and Geoffrey is going to
comment on the fact that the wax had appeared to have astral
elemental essence mixed with the etheric elemental essence. The wax
concerned was a mixture of paraffin and beeswax.
GH- I can only suggest, or even assume that, because beeswax
comes through an insect and originally is associated with the intake
of plant substances, that it would have a more active life principle
perhaps than a mineral wax and that life principle would extend more
into the astral plane and absorb some astral elemental essence in it
or be associated with astral elemental essence. Consciousness in
the plant, still more so in the bee being certainly more highly
awakened and developed than that in a mineral and more likely to
have extensions into the astral plane with some relics of sensory
responses and life activities. I can only assume that as a possible
reason why I saw this moving coloured astral elemental essence in
connection with wax.
DDL- Now, for a comment on the next paragraph as to the
demagnetisation of containers.
GH- Yes, theoretically, that would seem to have been
advisable, but practically it is not necessary in the cases of
containers which I have used. I find now that the kind of
clairvoyance, highly concentrated and focussed which is needed to
see atoms, is exclusive of every other influence, and I have not
once been conscious of an intrusion of the kind I feared when I made
this suggestion of demagnetisation.
DDL- Page 4.
GH- With regard to astrological influences, particularly
that of the moon, whether waxing or waning, and when I said rising I
did mean waxing, I have often felt when attempting, not only
clairvoyance, but other kinds of occult work, that all is easier; I
am thinking of clairvoyant diagnosis of disease, and certain occult
forms of healing, all comes easier and the forces flow more readily
and my own consciousness is freer on the waxing moon fortnight, and
this has been apparent, I think, today, when I have felt more at
home in the examination of atoms, particularly this morning, when I
have grown in confidence on this account.
DDL- With reference to the bottom of page 5 and the
question of separate containers.
GH- I thought it possible that discharges from the
containers and their contents might interfere with the clarity of my
vision and even with the condition inside the substances. This
proved not to be the case at all, though every substance is
surrounded for me by an aura and is shooting countless myriads of
particles of various sizes all around itself, and I didn't want to
have any of these particles from one bottle or container shooting
into another lest it should upset my observations, disturb the atoms
and place them in abnormal conditions or positions, and it was for
this reason that I asked for this separation. I still find it
desirable though perhaps not so essential as I had feared.
DDL- This comment is on the second paragraph on page 7,
with reference to the form of an atom, and the thought of a Logos.
GH- As far as these investigations have permitted me to form
an opinion, still tentative, it seems to me that funnel shapes, rod
or tube shapes, dumbbells and radiations at each end are all formed
by the flow of currents of force in such directions and manners as
to produce those effects and why this force assumes different, or
flows along differently patterned channels and in different
directions and in different ways I assumed, and I think I did have
an intuition whilst I was working, there here we are in the presence
of the formative thought of some great being whose thought, concept,
archetypal idea of the force structure of the substances of nature
caused the energies to flow along these particular patterns,
designs, channels. That was the thought I had. And I want to just
add here that, so far, I have been watching, say, whirling funnels
and other aspects of atomic shapes and have not been able to discern
still anu in any number in them. I have been aware of what I can
only call dots, perhaps, but nothing that I could say at present
were very regular as being stationary inside flowing energies.
FINISH: 7/4/57 7/4/57. 54 V11/1/GL 18B/19A 12.
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1957-04-08 at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION at 17 Belvedere St. on 8th April, 1957.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) Jack Askew (JSEA) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL- Mr Hodson is going to study a diamond in a ring with
respect particularly to the details of the emanations and the
detailed structure of the atom itself. -(P)-
GH- My first sight inside the diamond is of the funnels
only, like a cluster of funnels, two sets. (LP) -(P)- It is
possible to see the two pyramids as if slightly separated so that
the base of an upper one can be envisaged, visualised, almost seen,
though cohesion is apparent and all eight funnels are radiating from
a common centre. Now, I want to record again the experience of the
whole phenomenon being pervaded by countless myriads of minutest
conceivable, physically inconceivably minute points of light which I
take to be free anu and which for some reason are not caught up in
the system of atoms at all but remain unmoved by it and pervade it.
These are everywhere. They pervade everything, like ...
Strangely unaffected by the tremendous forces at work in the atom
and rushes of energy, and so forth, they don't seem to get caught up
in those or be affected much by them. If at all. They remain as a
virgin atmosphere in which the phenomenon is taking place. [1980
DDL: Therefore not gluons] [1981 DDL: ? Higgs particles].
DDL- These free anu are inside and around the funnels?
GH- Yes. The whole, and extend, - Yes they fill the "air"
inside the block of diamond.
End Cassette 19A Start Cassette 19B
GH- Now I am looking, trying to look at any rate, at a
single funnel. There is again the impression of a powerful
concentration of force in the middle from where all the funnels
radiate and the impression of a ball or sphere of influence or
radiation. That seems to me to be clearly established. I am going
to look at it a bit. -(P)- It is denser. I think it must be
something like E4 of a refined character and it seems to - yes the
funnels arise out of it. -(P)- It is more brilliant and the force
is more intense and concentrated at its centre. In fact there is a
tremendous compression there, at the centre. Oh, I see force is
welling up from a higher dimension at that centre, and it is for a
moment held by something it consists of a concentration of these
specks which I take to be anu, in an area, and then instantly it .
... the arriving force - is dissipated in organisation of the
funnel shapes and shoots and radiates out, not all of it contributes
to the octahedron and eight funnel shapes, some of it's loose and
shoots out in all directions, and I think it is this emanation which
I see, first of all outside of objects, and in this case outside of
the diamond. They consist of points of energy which don't get used
up in the formation of the atom. In other words there seems to be
an excess. However -(P)- it ... it is like a spray. It is
like as if it were divided into eight sprays which flow, I'll say
for now, down the funnels. This fine spray of particles which make
up the appearance of a rushing force released from tremendous
compression which is momentarily - of course the compression is
continuous but the particles are not the same ones. They arrive,
they are held, fractionally and shoot off in preordained direction,
in this case, the atomic shape. Yes. This force pushes its way
through the surrounding loose free anu which in a most peculiar
manner don't seem to get caught up in it, but are pushed back and
you have got a funnel shaped, caused by the fact that the force
begins highly compressed but as it moves away from the centre it
gets freer and freer, naturally, and spreads itself out into
currents of force flowing out and down the funnels, and that seems
to me to be how the funnels are shaped, are formed.
DDL- How do they whirl?
GH- Just a minute. Well the particular one I am looking at
now, if I were looking down into it, I am looking at it sideways at
the moment, the one I'm seeing, it looks like a great water spout,
as I am looking at it -(P)- It's ... From the side, as I
am looking at it, it is going this way, that's counter; the
particular one I've got seems to have inside it forces or anu which
are spinning round just in its walls and slightly inside its walls,
counter-clockwise. Yes, if you look down it would be turning
left-wise. But I must say that I also see non-spinning-round, non-
circulating minute points of energy going straight out in a spray.
There are two movements there, one straight out in a spray, one
circular forming the walls, or causing, producing effects which look
like walls of an opening funnel. -(P)- Well ... at the
risk of being repetitive, I do see this pincushion or ball effect;
more pincushion like, covered with pins. Of course each one is a
ray of flowing out energy from which the funnels arise. Yes. Right
in there. Certainly right down in there, if I penetrate, it gets
whiter and whiter, and a more brilliant light, occult light, right
down in there to the very centre of it, where I try to put my
consciousness at the point, the actual point from which all these
funnels radiate, and the other loose free forces. There, there, as
if arriving from nowhere, there is a continuous arrival of brilliant
points of hardened energy, hardened by compression, and then off
they go along their free and apparently predestined paths.
DDL- Arriving from astral plane?
GH- Well now I'll try and find that. I can't see that at
the same time because I am looking etherically now. I will try and
find out where they come from. Well, limiting myself still to what
I am seeing, and with great difficulty this morning, but fairly
clearly. Of course they just - it's like a mystery, they suddenly
are there, that is all I can say, they just appear.
DDL- These are definite anu?
GH- Yes. Yes they are anu. I have got one now, up, and yes
it is an anu. That is to say, I caught a glimpse then of the
spirillae. Yes. My attempt to find out where they came from had the
peculiar effect of enlarging one, and I suddenly saw unexpectedly
and without conscious effort a single anu. So I think that's a
principle. They are anu. Now where do they arrive (from)? How are
they formed? Of course, now at this very high magnification, now
the movement appears to be slow. In fact the one I have hold of,
yes, I see, I merely follow it, and it is a curious thing that, I
wonder what that means. When I get one and enlarge it, it nearly
seems to be still or the movement, the sense of movement in my
consciousness is tremendously slowed down. It's peculiar, I can't
explain that. You would think it would be the other way, but
however, that is what I see. Well, it is an interior, it is a
from-within- outwards movement, not directional at all. The arrival
is at the centre, as if from, as if right in the very centre there
was a passage-way into another region altogether which is almost
universal, and infinitely extensible, and then focuses down to a
minute point to produce the anu. And that seems to come from all
directions as if force rushed from the whole spherical universe,
rushed in and formed an anu. But then that is three dimensional.
This ... It wells up from within the centre. Suddenly arrives.
You can't see it. All you know it's there. And then now, I am back
again to seeing myriads of points, and they are just shooting off
with incredible speed, as if released from a spring or from that
compression. they shoot off, some free and some down funnels.
DDL- And this other dimension may be astral, but you
can't say so?
GH- Well, I - er ... it will mean such a tremendous
change of focus. I'll make it later. I want to do that. But just
now I am in such a condition where I'd like to stay a little and
look around the atom more if I can. -(P)- Yes. The end of the
funnel, the widest part of the funnel, where it stops, its edge is
slightly thicker, very faintly outlined in comparison to the walls,
there is some extra pressure and compression there. The force
rushing out, some of it remains in coherent rays, to form shooting
DDL- Outside the atom?
GH- Yes slightly, a little further beyond.
DDL- Like a pistil projecting out?
GH- Yes, something like that. Yes, that is another
phenomenon of which I feel fairly clear. So now we've three things.
We have this pistil-like effect in which force remains in pencil
shape and free rushing force going out and then this circular
movement inside which seems to be the force which makes the shape or
the illusion of a shape. It is fairly clear to me.
DDL- Are there anu, fixed anu in the pencils of force? or
only moving, or only leaving anu?
GH- Wait a moment. Let's see. I haven't looked into one of
those. -(P)- I want to say this, that the ball of which I speak,
changes shape and flattens almost to a collar on occasion. It's
moving. It's being effected by what's going on inside, which is the
real source and heart of the matter, subject matter. I now see that
the atom isn't at all stable like it's pictured. The whole thing is
in constant movement of various kinds. That's one kind of movement.
It's almost like a pulse, this condition of substance at the centre
which I call a ball and then a collar and then a ball. It's
changing. It's moving yet, the octahedral shape is preserved, and
definitely the funnels are as I've described them. They remain.
GH- Now I just happen to have caught a face. There is
nothing there really that I can see, not like a hardening of any
kind. Yes, why does it look like a face? Oh! it is the most
evanescent thing that, highly mayavic that, faces of the pyramids.
I can see them really as if you were looking through the thinnest
ice or glass. Utterly clear, very thin. Oh, it's tension! It is
caused by torsion or tension, like a stretched skin, some influence
again I postulate, tentatively and hypothetically the action of
diving thought, and the play of forces which result, set up at right
angles to the axes of the funnels, a condition in matter of held
tension or stretched, the feeling I have, which causes that skin -
very thin skin. Now the other ones joined, join it at the edges.
GH- Now at those edges there is phenomenon going on of very
considerable importance. The edges - emanations are shooting out
from the edges. This is something which isn't essential to or
particularly germane to the system of funnels and the atomic
function at all. It is an extra product of all that, in that the
edges of the pyramids are where these skins meet and there is some
interesting phenomenon going on. I have often been attracted to the
edges. Oh, yes. Well it's anu shooting out. Two forces meet, that
is the two influences of the two walls or faces, and where they meet
then possibly along the direction of the parallelogram of forces,
forces -(P)- shoot outwards. Yes. The skins themselves are anu
built. Well, everything is of course, that 's perhaps redundant,
but, oh yes, it's anu formed and the anus are moving in the flat
plane of the walls and where the edges come where two meet there is
a blending and an outflow from the edges straight out into space and
the direction is a line drawn from where all the funnels meet
straight to the edge and then on out. Now there is a corner. This
is more marked at the corners. this doesn't seem to have anything to
do whatever with the funnels which are the real functional part of
the diamond. -(P)- Now direct me. It is about as far as I am
able to go and I am getting tired. I'll have to stop.
DDL- Will you tell me if all the funnels spin in the same
direction or some are clockwise ...
GH- Try. -(P)- Ah, I'm getting tired. No, I can't do any
more. I'm sorry.
Discussion: Granular Background.
GH- I wonder if you or your colleagues would care to comment
to me upon the commonest phenomenon that I see, all the time, unless
I make an effort to shut it out, and now when I emerge from my
clairvoyant investigation it fills the whole air, world and
universe, and it consists of countless myriads of the smallest
possible points you can imagine, the whole air is filled with it.
It is all in extremely rapid movement. Sometimes it makes little
lines of groups of them. Sometimes it is a kind of shimmer. But it
is all granular. Whatever there is granular. Minutely granular,
far inconceivably beyond anything, a pin's point would be
enormously large in relationship to this, if one could see a pin's
point. It's extremely minute. And they are everywhere. And
they've always been, ever since etheric clairvoyance showed itself
to me at all, always the world, the air, everything I look at is
pervaded and surrounded by these countless myriads of minute points.
DDL- With your eyes open or shut?
GH- Oh, my eyes open. Though, now I am seeing them with my
eyes wide open. They force themselves on my attention.
DDL- If you shut your eyes what happens?
GH- Ah! If I shut my eyes ... now ... no. I can
see them, but there are so many other phenomena of light when you
shut your eyes that it is different, so -(P)- ... let us
say that if I see them they are so different when my eyes are shut
that we could say no. I see these with my eyes open. They are
everywhere, they're a most extraordinary phenomenon to me, and it is
everywhere. Often I can't tell whether it is raining or it isn't.
So filled is the air with these myriads of minute points. They are
the most marked just now when I have emerged from this clairvoyant
research. Now are they free anu, do you imagine?
DDL- It would have to be a guess. I would have thought
it was more likely, with your eyes open, to be molecules of ...
. Do they seem smaller or bigger than vitality globules? [1980: a
group of seven anu].
GH- Oh, heaps smaller. I see the vitality globules dancing
in amongst them. They are like a billiard ball to a ... The
vitality globule is as a billiard ball would be to the point of a
pin if you could see it. The smallest point you can conceive.
DDL- Well all I can say is that if they are free anu,
although you may need to open your eyes, you can't be seeing them
with your eyes. I can't see how ...
GH- I do.
DDL- ... a thing minutely smaller than the atoms
which compose the cells of the retina couldn't be seen by the
physical eye. I don't think you are seeing them with your
physical eye, I think the effect of opening your eyes is to shut
out phenomena which interfere, and having your eyes open you are
able to appreciate with the etheric portion of your eye or
brain, but not the physical part, not the dense physical eye.
GH- No, no. I don't think I am seeing with my dense
physical eye. Seeing with the etheric eye, etheric clairvoyance.
Well it is an interesting phenomenon, what it is I don't know.
DDL- And are these - do these minute points form fringes
to objects, particularly?
GH- No, they are free and loose on their own account.
Fringes to objects are quite a separate phenomenon. Every object
has them. This microphone, for example, has a fringe which is
reaching out to there, to me. And these creatures, these points,
they are all round it, in it, and they are not particularly affected
by - the fringe, by the by, does reach to there- the close and fine
emanations from the metal of this mike, and whatever is happening in
it, reach to there. I can see the edges as clearly as can be to
there. It conforms to the shape of everything. These universally
diffused, minute points of light are everywhere visible to me,
normally, without effort, and everywhere.
DDL- Well, if they are smaller than vitality globules,
which are groups of seven anu, the inference must be that they are
GH- Yes. Then I must have some strange form of etheric
clairvoyance which enables me unconsciously and without effort to
see such minute objects.
(JSEA can see them too.)
DDL- [1980: I did not then realise that anu represent a
shape rather than a size.]
FINISH: 8/4/57. 8/4/57. 63 V11/2/RL 19A/19B 5.
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1957-05-25 at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei on 25th May, 1957.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) Jack Askew (JSEA) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL- The first thing we will try and do is to study the
E.1, E.2, 3 and 4 levels up and down as a form of practice. Try
to distinguish between the levels of observation, and does that
really mean magnification? and the density or the sub-plane of
nature of the object observed. Does illumination really affect
it? Is etheric sight, like physical, due to reflected
light-waves? Would you like to comment on that?
GH- Yes. In doing the investigations as to levels, from
gaseous through the ethers - will there be an object in front of me?
DDL- We thought we would use the diamond as something
that you are familiar with.
GH- Then I quite agree. Willing to try that. It occurs to
me that an ideal laboratory for occult chemistry observations by
clairvoyance, would be a sound-insulated room built of, or at least
lined with, substances of the least possible radiation of forces,
the most inert substances. In a position where the thoughts and
feelings and other emanations of people, except the students
present, would not reach the observer. Isolation from every
external influence, distraction and possibly deceiving play of
forces is the ideal; practically impossible to get in modern
civilisation but that would be the way so that the investigator
would not have to use a lot of time and energy and psychic force
required for his work in isolating himself and shutting out all
these extraneous forces. For instance I am surrounded by books,
many of which are very powerful works, adept(ic) and so on, and they
are all sending out their radiations powerfully upon me from each
bookshelf on my right and electrical currents are playing through
the room along the wires from our machines and whilst it is possible
to disregard these and when one is at last focussed upon the object
clairvoyantly, it is all right but it would be splendid to be
insulated from these various points of view. Now I am going to look
at this diamond arranged in front of my ajna chakram, trying to
distinguish its appearance and the phenomena associated with it at
the four successive etheric levels, granted, if it is so, that they
exist, and are in any way clear cut, one from the other. Etheric
double of this cut diamond conforms to its shape; it's very slightly
larger, its corners and edges are not sharp but dull, almost
rounded, surfaces obviously granular, rough as it were, compared to
the glass-like surfaces of the diamond. -(P)- Compared to the
sightings when I am seeing component octahedra or funnels the
etheric double looks inert though, like everything else I see
clairvoyantly, filled and surrounded and pervaded with those almost
infinitely minute points of light ... (P). It is not pertinent to
our study but the akashic record of the cutting is clear and there
is a workman at a bench or table working away, stopping to examine,
using magnifiers and the influence of his thought and his intent
(which is very strong) and his presence, these are clear, seem to be
visible, at any rate they present themselves very strongly to me
when I am trying to limit myself to the sight of ether 4 of a
diamond. And by that I mean I am only and deliberately looking at
the outside and this figure, all this is in the air, like a minute
or very much reduced 3-dimensional cinema show going on. All around
it. Very marked. -(P)- Well the next impression at this level
where I can still see the greyish double, is that granular forces
are continually rushing out at all sorts of different angles; some
of them to disintegrate when they get out or to vanish from sight.
Others seem to remain coherent and to flash off into the distance.
This makes a kind of haze aura round it at ether 4. There is a
minute haze aura of perhaps a quarter of an inch all round
consisting of a fine discharge and then shooting through the other
particles, larger, which go right off and don't cohere and cause an
auric shape, but simply disappear, the next phenomenon; outpouring.
Without going into details there seem to be three sizes of particles
in this aura, this discharge, the very finest of all which give the
impression of a haze and then two larger sizes which shoot right
off. Looking inside, deliberately trying to keep at the etheric
double level of seeing -(P)- The first impression, possibly
wrong, but persistent, is of a turmoil going on inside, disorganised
turmoil of boiling activity. Turmoil, only in the sense that
boiling water is in a turmoil. But ... what shall I say ...
funnel-like jets which are shooting these minute particles about
their paths ... the paths of the streams cross and shoot off outside
at irregular kind of lines and angles and directions. But there is
a relatively stable etheric double of the diamond itself within
which all this is happening but which itself remains just a double
of the diamond built of dense etheric matter. Well, this etheric
double matter is just being thrown about and made to ... to be
disturbed like a ... as if a great storm were going on inside there,
explosions and flashes and rushing currents of granular energy. All
of this is going on inside. No, at this level nothing that looks at
all like an octahedron, for instance, presents itself to me at all,
though distinct suggestions of funnels, not orderly but there are
somewhere lots of funnels, in there, which I am being careful not to
go into GH too much because I feel that the funnel more belongs to
the next level. I am going to test that soon. -(P)- Now there are
two distinct conditions of the etheric double of this diamond as far
as I can see. One is a relatively stable shape-holding mass of what
we call ether; ether double material. It is granular when examined
very closely, it is in, but itself, of itself, avoiding the inner
activities of which I spoke, it is in itself of course granular and
in an active condition, but compared to the next phenomenon it is
relatively quiet. Accent relatively because nothing is quiet the
moment you look at it with clairvoyant sight, everything is built of
minute grains or points of highly compressed concentrated force.
The other phenomenon which is visible but which requires a slight
raising of level of observation to bring it into focus, is the
continuous rushing discharges which are arising ... of energy which
is arising, within the etheric double and rushing out. I do get the
suggestion now that there is something in the nature of an ordered
discharge as if through a funnel, but I don't see the funnel. At
present, just at present, it seems to me that I see all this because
it is in fact reflecting light.
DDL- Can you test that by switching on the light?
GH- Yes, just a moment, I just want to say, for instance,
that all the grains are shining to me. They are - They are mostly
white light, they're white. They are just pure white light.
Absolutely, minute, beyond anything we could measure, but still they
are emitting light. Etheric double matter is a dull grey and
compared to them it is a dull lavender grey. It also is built of
points but they are nothing like as luminous, so I judge that I am
seeing light. Now, what did you ask me?
DDL- Are these points of light sending out light rays or
are they reflecting it from the light in the room?
GH- Right. Just a minute. No, they are sending out their
own light. I am seeing them by their own inherent light. They do
not reflect light. No, it doesn't make any difference to them at
all. It makes no difference when I turn the light on. If I am
right then, they are self-luminous bodies shining by their own light
which they radiate and which at this level the mechanism of etheric
clairvoyance picks up, and as far as I am concerned the phenomenon
is exactly like eyesight seeing -(P)- -(P)- . Fine haze surrounding
the etheric double of this ring, the large ring which holds the
diamond, not its own ring, which I happen to see differs from the
haze surrounding the diamond. It's changing more in the shape of
the haze. The comparison may be wrong but it is more like the
changes say of the corona of the sun in an eclipse, whilst the
diamond's etheric double haze is steady and regular.
DDL- That is the brass ring? [mounting]
GH- Yes. That is the brass ring. In the haze surrounding
the brass ring, in addition to the fairly regular haze there is some
changing phenomenon. Something which causes the shape occasionally
to alter, whereas the diamond seems to remain the same; a fine
discharge of self-lighted extremely minute particles, going off at
relatively right angles, it seems to me, to the faces of the diamond
which, however, are nothing like as clear-cut in the etheric double.
Now I want to go up now and begin to look, to try and look at a
higher dimension or whatever it is. But before I do so is there
anything that you want to ask me more, about what seems to be the
sheer etheric double of the diamond? Is that all right, or do you
DDL- Yes, when you speak of etheric double, that is E.4
matter from your point of view?
DDL- Before you leave that level, is there anything that
you would call E.5, that is etheric sight at the physical level,
dense physical level?
GH- Right. -(P)- With my eyes open I am now seeing all the
whole physical apparatus, ring and diamond, all reflecting physical
light. I see, with my eyes open, though I can't guarantee to be
seeing ... not to be using etheric sight at the same time, but I see
there ... discharges going on, not a fine complete haze as I have
just been describing, but all sorts of little points of light
appearing at the surface and shooting off at all angles, all sorts
of angles. I see that. The change then, with my eyes open, from
seeing (I am now seeing the glass-like diamond), to a little
clairvoyance, simply produces the suggestion that the faces for
example are built of minute particles through which others are
rushing, movement, in fact the change is one of movement of two
kinds, one along the faces as if holding them coherent and the other
out in all directions - minute particles, very minute particles of
light. -(P)- I am not seeing the greyish substance which we call
etheric matter with my eyes open. I can if I want to see it, using
both together, as I often do in diagnosis but I can keep at a point
where I don't see it. It is not visible to me now. At once when I
close my eyes and pass to the deliberate use of the etheric tube and
the ajna chakra, immediately the aura, the auric haze is next; built
of much finer particles, they are smaller than the ones I have just
been describing; organised fine haze, level, steady, inside from
which the haze is coming, roughly the shape of the diamond there is
this grey cloud, cloud-like substance. -(P)- So the experience of
trying to pass from solid to ether simply is the - first, the
appearance together with the solid of obvious particles construction
and discharge; and of course, therefore, movement. I can't get in
between that at present. I wish I could. -(P)- The moment I close
my eyes I get the etheric double shape of the diamond and the
discharge from the faces and at right angles to them which I have
been calling the haze. Now, when I put a little more on, or ... I
see more now I am seeing it at a slightly higher level, I see now I
can see that it is granular. The next phenomenon is much more
brilliant, relatively larger, outrushing particles. Double and haze
can still just be kept within vision, only just, and the moment I
try to examine these larger particles then double and haze vanish.
Then I go, my consciousness is taken inside the diamond where there
is the activity of which I spoke. Of course there is no single
centre, it is all - centres of arrival and discharges are all over
the place inside, whilst not uncoordinated, the impression you
receive is that it is a boiling going on in there. Now when you
watch the boiling you don't see the etheric double, you only see
forces and there keep appearing, funnels. You see a funnel, and you
don't look at it, and you see another funnel, funnels all over the
place at all angles. So then we have now come, the next stage is a
greater coordination, a general boiling but a tendency to
coordinated funnel shape discharge tubes. No faces. No faces at
this stage as of octahedra. Now I have gone up deliberately, though
I cannot tell you how, quite: I have obviously gone up, because now
I have got what I can only call an impression of an octahedron, of a
number of octahedra which, if I had started entirely fresh and
didn't know what I was doing or looking at would cause me to examine
one; so now that is another stage higher. The appearance of the
faces of octahedra, that is the next, strangely enough, it seems
contradictory perhaps that this should be, this suggestion of form,
but that does seem to be the next stage. Etheric double and haze
have all gone, magnification is now enormous compared to all of
that. You keep getting glimpses of equilateral triangles, and
movement; floating movement. For instance an octahedra just floated
past the end of the etheric tube then; octahedron floated past the
end; there is movement in there. -(P)- I have gone up higher, as
far as I think -(P)- I've passed through a condition where I am
close to the astral plane, if not in the lowest sub-plane where the
impress is of funnels till. I am not allowing, I am inhibiting
magnification which, curiously is a tendency to want to stop and
look at a single granule or single funnel which, and enlarge it up
and look at it, which I am resisting, so that at this level which is
the highest I can look at in a controlled way, I simply see
innumerable smaller funnels; and the double reaches now to a
distance of - Oh! it is large - relatively; I can relate to the
physical object. Oh, the astral of the diamond is double its size
at least. Let's see. Yes, about double its size. It has shape.
It has limited form, caused again by still finer particles, moving
along the lines which make edges and faces, but they are so fine
that it looks like liquid, ... er ... two or three times the size of
the diamond. It isn't liquid. Not wet. But it is of that
consistency. The particles are dancing, up and down, up and down,
up and down, like dancing bubbles. Oh now. There I suddenly get a
End Cassette 20A start Cassette 20B
GH- what - a suggestion of formation inside of a thin line
of coordinated particles making a line and there was a spiral round
it. Here, I think it is that we begin to see these anu-like
shapes and forms, and rather aggregations. Oh yes. Now if I go
down again till I see an octahedron and a funnel I lose all this.
That's evidently a very much lower level. I go up again. It is so
difficult to describe. -(P)- All right then. I'll just say, all
the activity is intensified. The outflow of particles is far
greater and they are larger in size. They are rushing down in
towards the centre of the diamond and they are discharging out and
the two don't interfere with each other. Similarly to putting the
fingers of one hand in between the fingers of the other. That
produces the effect that the whole astral double of the diamond is
dancing, up and down, up and down, though it really is two separate
lots of particles, one going out and the other coming in. The ones
going out well up inside the astral double of the diamond, and they
are flashing out, going out, and tearing out, roaring out almost.
No there is no noise. I mustn't ... I don't want to give that
impression. Yes. Now there are at this level distinct lines with
anu on them or globules on them, like a stick, like a thin wire or
stick with adhering and component particles. In other words, many
of the particles are strung on a central stick or something.
Something like, enormously crude, something like an abacus. I'll
draw this afterwards. But if you will care to draw the astral
double of the diamond. Sticking out of it like a lot of porcupine
spines, the wires of an abacus on which the little balls are
threaded. Now then that, instead of the fine haze of discharge,
instead of larger separate particles discharging as I saw before at
the etheric level, now we have this system of the auric energies
flowing in and flowing out. It is a most wonderful sight, a most
DDL- Any colour?
GH- Yes. Certainly. Particularly blue - liquid kind of ...
what shall we say yes, the balls are coloured some of them. Some of
them are not - some of them are variously coloured. Perhaps only as
I see edges or circumferences and edges of circumferences or curves,
outer curves. But there are different colours there. I notice reds
and blues and some yellows. I am now in a world of colour. The
astral sea of elemental essence is all about me and it is one vast
sea of colour. Now what is it? Any more? direct me.
DDL- Now, I would like you to take a particular
octahedron and at that high magnification try and see its astral
GH- I would like to have a rest.
(Morning coffee) Original tape stopped. DISCUSSION.
DDL- You have just been saying, Geoffrey, there seems to
be a gap between the appearance of the dense physical object and the
appearance of granular force. There should be some intermediate
condition, is that what you wanted to say?
GH- Yes. For example, I am still looking at the diamond,
some distance away from me now, and the brass ring and platinum
mounting of the personal ring. Now I see the solids quite clearly
and I can at the same time without any difficulty whatever see that
they are completely surrounded by their own haze-like discharges.
True if I want to examine the discharge the solid goes slightly out
of focus but those two phenomena co-exist for me. I live in a world
of discharges which are patent and visible to me. Now if I look,
for instance, at the diamond from her four feet away, about, I can
see that it has got its own discharges, some of which are close
round it and some of which are shooting right out, and there will be
a flash 3 or 4 inches away which will die down again. All that I
can see together, without any trouble or straining or effort at all.
Then when I begin to look clairvoyantly and close my eyes, naturally
the solid vanishes and I have the etheric double which a relatively
inert grey cloud-like substance, itself clearly and obviously built
of minute particles in motion and surrounded by this fine haze and
other discharges. Now is there an intermediate stage between those
two where force is obliged to conform to dense physical location and
shape or are the dense physical shapes and objective appearances
pure delusion caused by the time lag on our eyes? It is still
granular, but our eyes can't see it. You know what is the
scientific comment there?
DDL- Well, I would suggest - as far as any physical
object is concerned such as this diamond, we see it by the
reflection of light. Now, if the wave lengths of that light is
greater than the distance apart of the granules, we can't see any
granules; and that is true. The granules of carbon atoms are at
least a thousandth of the wave length of light or they may be much
more [less] at any rate they can never be seen by visible light. So
that when you see granules, you must be using a sense which is
entirely distinct from that of ordinary physical eyesight; just as,
when an ordinary person touches something, and sees something, they
are viewing two entirely distinct senses altogether. That's my
suggestion, and that's why I asked whether etheric matter was
self-luminous, at least the granules were self- luminous, because if
they are not there must be some other electro-magnetic radiation
which is being reflected other than ordinary white light.
GH- Well, I am seeing those granular discharges through my
eyes and they are self-luminous. I am seeing them by their own
light. They are like little self-lighted bodies, the light of which
travels through the intervening space and catches my eyes. I can
focus on them for instance, so that I am actually seeing them in
sharp focus at the point where they exist. So we are in the
presence of a phenomenon of vision which is exactly the same as
sheer, exclusively physical vision, only I have this capacity of
seeing two at once, a level of the etheric which displays - reveals
granulation or corpuscular phenomena and solid physical matter. And
I see them equally, in fact I can't shut out, now; I cannot shout
out, even. I cannot really shut out the discharges. I see them
equally together. They are part of my vision of the physical world
that every object is surrounded by discharged granular particles,
infinitely minute. The air is filled with it. They are seen with
the eyes open, without an effort.
DDL- But they remain don't they, if you shut your eyes?
GH- Only if I then deliberately focus etheric clairvoyance
onto the place where they were coming from.
DDL- But you can still see them with our eyes shut?
GH- Oh yes.
DDL- Well, that shows therefore, that it must be being
seen by the ... at least they can't be seen by the dense
physical retina, although it could be seen by the etheric double of
GH- Ye-e-s. I do not have to change focus or instrument or
mind condition, so whatever it is the two go on together. And the
object seen must go to the macula and optic nerves, chiasma, and
optic centres, in just the same way as in physical vision, because
it is precisely the same appearance. I wonder whether this is not
merely an extension of my physical vision, just take which is -
which because of many years of yoga and some years of continued
clairvoyant research has become natural to me and enables me to see
beyond the violet end of the spectrum. I think it might be worth
while to have a spectrum, some system and try my sight with the
spectrum of light and see if I see anything beyond where you see
DDL- I should think so. We could use a Woods light, have
pitch darkness and illuminate an object with Woods light which is
simply ultra violet light. And ...
GH- And see if I am seeing any further along. Very well, we
will do that at your leisure.
DDL- After morning tea we were asking Mr Hodson to
examine the carbon atom in diamond, to increase the magnification
until he is at the very centre of it, and then endeavour to examine
the very centre with astral vision. -(P)-
GH- Answering one of your remarks, that it is difficult to
conceive how the projected etheric tube from the ajna chakra gets
into so very small, minute an object and position as the centre of a
carbon atom for example, and can see, for instance, the base of
a ... of one of the component pyramids, and other problems of our
normal 3-dimensional physical space limitations, I looked at the
tube just now and I see that it is telescopic, like an ordinary
telescopic, like one of the feet of a telescopic tripod; not that
there are separate sections, like that, but definitely it has tubes
within tubes, successively finer and as higher and higher
magnification is brought about by the action of the will, so the
size of the ultimate part of the telescope diminishes until it is
small enough in relation to the object to be examined - in the case
of magnification, to bring about the desired result. To put it in
another way, by the action of the will, the clairvoyant can reduce
the size of the bore of the ajna tube, probably does that
unconsciously as he wills to see. -(P)- I want to confirm a
previous impression, and even description concerning the carbon atom
which I think I am now seeing. It is that at least the appearance
of a separation of the two component pyramids exists. For instance
I happened to see an octahedron with a slight separation and the -
and at the very centre not a ball but a slightly elongated ball,
almost like a little rod with rounded ends, penetrating the two
hazes and as it were holding them together; I wonder whether the
sort of quasi- etheric double of the bases themselves can have
produced this illusion because they would extend beyond the actual
base of the pyramid at a lower level of magnification. That isn't
quite right, I now, but something like that, which I'll talk about
it after. -(LP)- -(P)- I am seeing other carbon atoms where the
bases of the component pyramids are together. I think there is a
different condition of the carbon atoms, slightly separated and
tightly together; what that means I don't know, but it does seem to
be so. Direct me again. I want to put my mind to work, yes?
DDL- Will you look at a particular carbon atom, magnify
the E.4 ball right up and then try - describing it again in that
state - and then try and look at it astrally. -(P)-
GH- It is like a bomb, continually exploding without losing
its spherical shape; which means therefore that it is, that at the
centre of it there is from some higher dimension constantly
arriving, indeed I can see it, quanta of energy which rush off,
which, which ... cohere for an appreciable pause; not, I think
in our dimensions of time measurement, except, perhaps trillionths
of a second or something like that, but an appreciable pause takes
place before ... during which each particle is held for that time and
then seems to explode outwards. Now ...
DDL- Is that at the E.1 level?
GH- Just a moment, I am just getting that very thing. Now
as I watch the exploding outwards, the E.4, etheric double ball
vanishes for me. I may have to modify that E.4 ball effect. There
certainly does look to me to be a sphere there, where the funnels
all, eight funnels converge, there is there a concentration of
arriving, momentarily pausing, and then discharging energy. And it
keeps the shape of a sphere roughly. Oh! It is the disturbance it
produces in E.4 That I see. Oh, now I am seeing it all rather
differently. It - it I see now it pushes E4 back outwards and it is
at the illusory circumference of the sphere that E.4 becomes perhaps
packed closely to give the appearance from purely outside vision
that there is a ball there, but when I put myself as now, right
inside, I see that there is no E.4 right inside, only this
tremendous arrival and off shooting of forces. The power is simply
tremendous, colossal, at this degree of magnification, continuous
rhythmical harmonious, ordered; and the mystery of it all as I look
at it is, why it pauses; that pause again (as you told me I say
sometimes) my ego says that pause is of great importance in
understanding the transference of energy through the planes to the
physical and the appearance of an illusory form, a fixed form; mm,
it is just there, where the miracle of creation occurs and it is
there where the Kriya-shakti of the Logos is operative, there; and I
think it must be there where the Kriya-shakti of the occultist
works. So the modification from previous reports would seem to be
that it's not a solid E.4 ball at all that is there. It's an empty
... it's a thin sphere - thin skinned sphere of pushed back
etheric matter. Why it is only pushed back so far and so on I don't
know, but that is what it looks like. Now I am looking at the
higher degree of magnification up towards the astral or perhaps
into it. -(P)- My first impression for what it is worth is of
very much larger particles all rushing down into the centre. By
that I mean larger than the minute points seen etherically. They do
seem to be arriving in an arranged formation, not to be only a
number of separate quanta or whatever they are, but some of them
again I say look as if they are associated with some central
coordinating thread. -(P)- My mind is probably materialising all
this hopelessly, but again it looks like - like speared particles
arriving. -(P)- It is curious at this level the sense of
compression and strain and stress in the atomic world and on my
consciousness is greatly reduced as if the force is freer in itself
and not yet subjected to some irresistible compressive agent. The
movement even seems to be slower. That may be due to a condition of
my consciousness, because I can't go back and forth and compare, but
certainly the movement seems to be - the descending movement into
the centre seems to be slower. Now dimensions come into it and my
studies and thoughts on the 4th dimension, unevoked, come to my mind
and I see a duality which seems contradictory. If I look at this
again down at the apparently etheric level where I see only arriving
force, and outflowing force, the appearance is of arrival, from an
invisible source, of these points of energy. You couldn't say where
they come from. They are there, that's all. They appear. There is
a sense of their coming from a within direction, a fourth withinness
direction, definitely there is that. Yes, they are. But it is not
a direction you could indicate by a line in three dimensions. They
are there! as if out of nowhere from a point of view of linear
direction. They are there! They are there! And they keep
arriving, pause, outflow. Now curiously, when I change the focus
and look at it astrally they don't appear to be arriving interiorly
but to be descending from all the directions possible into a sphere
down below to a centre. -(P)- Now I am going to try and take one of
those astral particles and see if I can find out anything about it.
Rightly or wrongly they seem to have a shaft of electricity and some
of them are strung on the same shaft. Others are individual but in
all of them, well no, mustn't say that, but in those obviously
visible there is a central shaft running from the top to the bottom
and out through. These look to me very like UPA's and yet - No - No
DDL- UPA or UAA?
GH- Yes. UAA. Wait a minute. Oh yes. Oh, for the first
time in my life I am now seeing really the UAA. Whether it is
astral or physical, I should think it is astro-physical, at the
point of impingement, because I see the spirillae and that each one
of them is itself composed of a spirally round - paths followed by
force, looking like wires. Ah, yes, that is not astral. That is
etheric. And I have only just got one of those minute particles.
-(P)- -(P)- I am stuck, frankly, I have got this ultimate atom,
physical ultimate atom of Babbitt and CWL. The spiral heart-shaped
figure. It is there on the end of my tube and it is an entrancing
sight. What do you want me to do about this? What is the next
DDL- Now you have an ultimate physical atom, an anu, on
the end of your tube at the moment?
GH- Very highly magnified so that I can see its component
spirillae and even its wires round it.
DDL- Could you look at the bottom of it with a view to
drawing it for us later?
GH- The bottom of it. The lower pole.
DDL- Are the three large whorls, do they cross there?
GH- My view of it, it is so huge now that it - I'm quarter
of the distance from the top of it at the moment where I don see the
three larger whorls - yes - down - another three seem to have come
around - yes - the bottom - follow those three larger ones and say
what happens to them?
DDL- At the bottom. Yes please.
GH- Oh, they turn up inside, they go vertically.
DDL- Good, now would you just look very closely how they
turn up inside because in the diagram there is something I can't
GH- Hm. Wait a minute then. They certainly form a spiral.
They keep together in three and - yes - like a corkscrew being
turned and turned - or a screw thread. For some reason, after
having taken the path way round the periphery of the atom they reach
the bottom and continue in a spiral path upwards but a very, very
much smaller spiral and they come down, and they continue quite
harmoniously up to the top again. What is the problem?
DDL- At the very bottom of the spiral, do the three
running parallel twist upon themselves? Do they cross over each
GH- Oh no. Not to my vision. They keep three separate -
they remain as three distinct currents of energy as far as I can see
at present. Just a moment. It is very like a cage in there. It's
very like a cage inside.
DDL- We are going to try and make a model of this.
GH- I see. Oh yes. I think I see your difficulty. I won't
add anything at present to what I say. I'll draw it for you later.
The three seem to come closer together - but don't touch, and get
concentrated and continue the spiral upward movement from the
bottom, but I don't see anything crossing, except that in looking at
it through it, it looks as though the far side of the spiral
pathways cross the nearer ones, naturally as it would have to, and
the whole thing is hollow. No, as far as I can see they don't
DDL- Good, thank you. Could you just, say, looking at a
spiral, shift to the astral again and see what happens?
GH- Do you mean one of these spirillae as they call them?
DDL- Yes. One of these spirillae.
GH- I don't know whether I can do that. You see in order to
see it at all, I've focussed at its own level, but I'll see. This
may be all wrong. The best I can do is that the change - when I try
to see the whole atom with astral sight, it vanishes for me and
there is just a hole in the astral elemental essence with a shaft
down it, that's all. I have to translate this wrongly into three
dimensional terms, but you think of an ovoid hole with the astral
elemental matter pushed back and down the middle a straight shaft of
tremendously potent - apparenly, the one I happen to - looks like -
positive electrical energy.
DDL- Why do you say positive?
GH- Well, coming down, flashing down. Oh I don't know, that
is the feeling I get from it. I am sorry that is not a scientific
way of saying it. I thought that the particular atom that I was
looking at was a positive one with force arriving rather than force
discharging back again and it seemed to me (not based upon any
observation) that the shaft was an arrival shaft from the higher
dimensions and centres of energy, was impinging on astral elemental
essence causing a hole, pushing back and the walls so to speak were
all that were visible. Not W-H-O-R-L-S, the walls of the hole. So
my answer so far would be that when I change from looking at this
object I come into the presence of a shaft of power. That is all I
can say just now, then I think I had better stop.
1957-05-26 at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION at 17a Belvedere Street, Whangarei on 26th May, 1957.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) Jack Askew (JSEA) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL- In front of Mr Hodson this morning there is a tablet
of compressed sodium chloride which he is going to examine in
GH- Well, I happen to have contacted and seen the upper end
of a dumbbell atom. It's canted towards me slightly from the
vertical, so that I can see partly its upper surface. The
magnification is high and the rest of the bar and the other end seem
to be an immense distance away down in the depths as it were. The
bar contains particles, which are in motion and seem to be making a
pattern. The upper outlet of the bar where the funnels radiate
laterally is open to some forces, and --- is a place of great
concentration of energy. In fact this system of funnels there is
itself an atomic power centre --- an entity really, though memory
tells me it's a half entity, or a third of an entity, but it has a
sort of completeness about it which makes it an interesting object
of investigation. The bar below isn't cylindrical perfectly, it
bulges slightly, half way down. It has moving, what I presume are
anu or particle in it, which are arranged in a pattern, but it is
all moving so rapidly, that I can't discern
that pattern --- but it
is at the centre halfway down where the middle portion of the design
seems to exist, and where again is a sense of entityship of an order
or government of particles in relationship to each other and with a
centre there again. One of our familiar up welling centres of
The particles are in very rapid movement but not -- er --orbital in
the ordinary planetary sense at all, the angles and so on are all
different, and it is much more complex. Now, another object
presents itself or is caught on to the tube which looks like a
bundle of ---I haven't got a name for these things, they are
elongated ovoids coming to a point. What did we say the other day?
What did we call those ---?
DDL- Tulip buds?
GH- Yes, that is good, thank you. -(P)- radiating from a
centre - a number of them. I can't count at the moment. Points of
light are visible. Since you told me to say - to go on talking
about all the things I see whether they seem relevant or not, which
I don't normally do, I can say that there are gradations of light,
no colour, and that the meeting place of the funnels at the top of
the dumbbell, there is there very brilliant white light, and that as
the funnels radiate off they shade off, so the open mouths of the
funnels are slightly greyer, slightly shaded shall we say.
DDL- Are the funnels different from carbon ones?
GH- No, not very. More elongated. But the same principle.
DDL- Roughly how many?
GH- Oh, there is spinning, you see. Just a moment. Oh I
don't know. See if I can. I must have slipped slightly because I
am attracted by a single anu, I presume it is, it is a brightly
coloured particle which is moving up and down the bar of the
dumbbell, and is making an elongated ovoid path. It definitely is
moving in an elliptical orbit, very elongated, so as to be nearly
flat, not quite. It's yes, it is going round -- is there something
there which suggests a centre half way down the dumbbell -- the bar,
and a number of minute points going round it, but in no sense
normally, (1980? orbitally), but along and inside the long bar. Oh.
-(P) A number of these are going up and down the bar and they keep
touching the centre of the system of radiant funnels at the end.
They go up there, they stay a moment, seem to discharge their
radiant funnels at the end. They go up there, they stay a moment,
seem to discharge their energy into that - into the middle place
between the funnels and -(P)- something comes out again and goes
down. But there is a continual flow of these -- we'll call them anu
- flowing up into that central funnel and probably supplying it with
GH- Though, I would add that there is also a direct arrival
of energy at that centre also, so there's a combination; there is a
direct arrival of force which is arriving there, it's very
brilliantly white in colour, and then there is, in addition to that,
this supply going up from the centre of the bar. So there is
something double there. So that the system of funnels isn't
entirely a separate entity. It is deriving some of its driving
power from the centre in the middle of the bar half way down. The
funnels are one, - it looks like three at each quarter. Well I
don't know. I wouldn't be very reliable and sure of myself there,
but it looks as if there are three at each quarter of the circle.
-(P)- Ten or twelve.
DDL- I think that is what CWL says, I am not quite sure.
GH- Never mind. I see. That's right. Now would you like
me to go on with that system of funnels or do you want something
DDL- Now, let's get it clear. There is a centre of
energy, arriving energy, at the centre of the bar and two other
centres at each end where the funnels come off?
DDL- And which appears to you to be the main arrival
centre? Or are they all three equal?
GH- No, they are not. (Looking again). You see I have been
spending my time in the funnels. Before I answer that I must go
down now, and focus strongly on the one in the bar, but I can tell
that at first glance it seems that the systems of funnels are far
more active and energetic and centres of power than further down the
funnel, but I am not going to affirm that yet. And now I will try
and find that out. Because I am not relying on what you would call
objective sight altogether in deciding a question like that. For
what it is worth I would say, that , whilst there is nothing like
the intensity of light or the suggesting of energy as yet when I
look down towards the centre of the funnel, yet I have a feeling
that after all that is perhaps the important centre. That is only a
subjective feeling that there is something very significant there
which I am now going to look into.
DDL- You said centre of funnel, you meant centre of bar?
GH- Centre of bar. Sorry if I made a mistake. Centre of
bar. I am going to try and see that now. It is at least equal in
importance but it is a coordinating centre as well, because it is
linked by flowing of energy, currents of energy, up to the top and
the bottom of the dumbbell. So it is perhaps also performing a
function of coordination. (1980 - OCA were assumed to represent one
science chemistry atom (SCA) in 1957).
DDL- Do you get the impression that anu are springing
into existence there?
DDL- And also at the funnel centres?
GH- I haven't seen them there.
DDL- But they do spring into existence at the centre of
GH- Yes.. Up at the funnels my - I saw simply brilliant
light and tremendous energy existing at the centre where the little
mouths of the funnels converge nearly, then this energy shooting off
down the funnels, and also playing all round them.
DDL- The energy shooting down the funnel is a stream of
GH- Yes; it is all granular.
DDL- Can you see what happens to the anu when it reaches
the open mouth of the funnel?
GH- It goes off out into space.
DDL- There is no turning at right angles as in the
GH- Don't see any. Seems to follow the line of the axis,
straight on out. For instance I can follow them right out to my
finger here. It is a stream or a current, yes.
DDL- Does this dumbbell atom appear to be attached to any
GH- Yes, there are things clinging to the bar, or associated
or attached to the bar: which I've eliminated, because I wanted to
--- stop now I am going to stop and rest a bit. My head is aching.
Can come back to that. Tape stopped and discussion follows: -(P)-
the lower end of the bar and the funnels were away down in the
immensity of depths, down out of my sight, and I have no feeling
that I am moving amongst minute objects, but that it fills the field
of vision, what I see.
DDL- So that the Hindu description of making yourself as
small as -- whatever it was, is just what it is like?
GH- It is the experience I have.
DDL- Now, you were saying that you had the subjective
impression that the centre in the bar was the important one? The
most important one?
DDL- And that the anu appearing to move in an orbit which
were incidentally the first time you had seen any sort of orbital
movement, appeared larger in some way?
GH- Yes, distinctly so.
DDL- When they were coming back from the end, did they
still seem larger?
GH- Yes, Which seems to break a law of dynamics, but
nevertheless, that is how it looked. I will look at that again.
For instance we don't know whether it was the same one. You see I
must look at that again. Now in order of importance to you, what
had I better do first?
DDL- Just continue on with what you were. Have a look at
that centre, and establish that point, till you feel you have
finished with that. Look at it astrally, then choose. (stopped
tape, followed by observation again).
GH- Now at less magnification, and see a number of dumbbell
atoms at different angles canted and though in the main rather
suggesting a regular column, like the columns of the temple in
Karnach, down vistas of which I can see the tulips, pin-cushions,
whatever I call them, tulip conglomerations, are in two
relationships, some are in motion down these columns. Some are
clinging to the bars which come between the tulip buds - stuck there
by some --- oh! --- stuck half-way down, and there is an
interaction going on between the centre in the middle of the bar and
the centre in the middle of the tulip pattern. Oh there's where it
is. Oh, there is a tremendous interplay of force going on between
the two centres, one in the tulip group, one in the centre of the
bar. On, - when two unite like this the amount of force involved -
seems to be stepped up enormously and -(P)- Well, at this
observation, and I have now increased the magnification so that I am
only seeing, the centre of a tulip group and the centre of a bar and
they are, both of them, power centres in their own accounts, and
they are practically and virtually blended, to make one, but dual,
power centre, the two separate ones being traceable, but they are
blended. Here is the heart of the molecule. Yes?
DDL- Where are the anu from the tulips going?
GH- Wait a moment. -(P)- The tulip bud is all an illusion.
There isn't anything there really. It is only patterns cut in
matter by very rapidly moving points of energy, but, there is a
continuous interchange of energy which is granular, taking place
between the centre in the dumbbell bar and the centre of the tulips,
and they are practically touching one another, and this makes a
single, that's right, that makes a single centre. There is a
duality maintained, but they are blended. There is where, as far as
this observation goes, there is where the molecular unity, I suppose
the word should be affinity, seems to me to be centred. The two
centres have an affinity for each other, and they are embraced. It
is just as if the tulip buds embraced the vertical bar.
DDL- Is it one tulip to one bar?
GH- Oh, no. One on each side for instance like that, you
DDL- That is two tulips to a bar?
GH- Yes, at least, Oh more than that. -(P)- Now I am going
to try and - in the main you can say two, like an arm embraced, like
that you see, and the bar would be between, like that.
DDL- Oh, it is not that the points of the tulip ---
GH- Oh, no, between the tulips, the bar is here where my
heart, body, trunk is, and the way I stretch my arms out now to the
front and each a little opened, would represent the tulips embracing
the bar. So that if my heart represents the centre of a tulip
group, it is practically blended with the centre of the bar. They
are a slight distance apart, but the interplay of energy makes them
one, duality in unity.
DDL- Would you say the tulips form a V?
GH- Yes, definitely a V.
DDL- Is the V of a cross of four?
GH- Oh, you mean at the back. I haven't looked at that,
just a moment. May I leave that and draw it to you? Save me a lot
of words. I am clear, fairly clear in my mind about that.
DDL- I just wanted you to look though, while you are
there, to see if the tulips form a six armed cross, or whether it is
just a V.
GH- Oh, yes, right. The system of tulips?
DDL- The system of tulips.
GH- Oh, yes, now I was looking at two component buds of the
system, not the whole thing, which embraced the bar. I may say that
they are held there very tightly almost like a welding or soldering
tightness. Oh, yes, well now, if I raise the level and go up from
there I was looking, towards E1 and the astral, I get a peculiar
shape; astrally, as far as I can see, you don't have a dumbbell, you
have -(P)- at the risk of being wrong and sounding stupid, two
clouds; one, the dumbbell that was, is elongated, an elongated
ovoid; And stuck to it is a spherical cloud, half way in at its
middle, and this makes a shape. Now inside there is a terrific
activity going on of rushing - well energy at first which I see is
DDL- Is it astral?
GH- Yes, definitely, I think so. There is no shape. Well,
I mustn't quite say that. The, what shall we say, the clear cut
appearance of say dumbbell and tulip buds, radiating from a
centre, is not apparent to me. It may be adumbrated, but I don't
see it, but everything is less confined. The forces are freer.
They are of course conforming to some laws, and presumably
patterning design, but the whole difference is of free play, free
activity, of individual centres of energy. Give me a few moments
will you, that is only the first glimpse, you understand. Now I
want to penetrate into this cloud a little more. The place
where the centre of the dumbbell bar would be, now assumed greater
importance that the ends where the funnels are. There are areas,
three areas, not shaped, but three areas of concentrations and
discharges going on. That is - I have isolated now for a moment and
I am looking at the sodium. But there is not the shape of funnels
or disc at the top, as I generally first see them, nor is there a
shape at all. I have to say this. There is no shape at all of a
bar like a dumbbell. There are three points or centres of energy
inside a long elongated ovoid. That is how it looks to me astrally.
There is colour around it, pink and blue. Some blue, quite a lot of
azure blue, playing and moving in around it. It - blue predominates
I would say. Sort of palish blue, but, of yes -- er -- Now, rightly
or wrongly I receive the impression of descending and ascending
force. Of energy - How can I put this? Two sorts of energy, or two
directions from which, and along which, force is reaching the centre
which would be the centre of the bar. One of them is vertical and
would, for example, be shooting down the bar from - passing through
the place where all the funnels converge, the top, shooting down
(though there is nothing there in the way of form) till they meet
the concentration at the centre. There they have astrally the
impression of passing down a well, presumably down to the physical
plane. That is one (?end) also doing the same thing from below;
then there is also a universal movement of force from all directions
flowing in there. How much that is - well is so, or how much I am
limited by my three dimensional mind I don't know. Suspect I am.
That is a what it looks like, for what it is worth. It is a most
peculiar sensation. It looks just like water running out of a bath,
going down a hole, you understand, and disappearing from view. So,
along the lines I've told you energy is rushing in and in these two
ways, getting down into the centre of the dumbbell and going right
down a pit, deep in, which I presume is down to the physical plane.
DDL- Can you go down that pit? In consciousness?
GH- Oh, I don't know. I am a very long way off, you see I
am standing back, so to say, and I am just watching this. Would
that be of interest if I made an effort?
DDL- Yes, very much so.
GH- Well, I'll have to go inside now you see. Just a moment
-(P)- The tube isn't controllable. The tube gets thrown about.
It's not appropriate. The Astral Chakra has got to be used. Well I
get a bodily sensation. Or not a bodily sensation, but the
equivalent of a bodily sensation of being squeezed at once if I try
to do that, and compressed. So that we may say compression is part
of the phenomena there. It's a sensation not a vision. It's not
sight, it is sense. Oh, yes. -(P)- Now I see a funnel, yes, it
becomes a funnel. I beg your pardon, it becomes a dumbbell, which
by comparison seems to be relatively static, it is still and solid.
Anything else? I am going to have to stop soon, what do you want?
Anything more? There is that knocking noise, it is a nuisance to
DDL- When you said you felt compressed, was that as you
put your etheric tube down the well?
GH- No, my consciousness.
DDL- Just your consciousness. And your etheric tube
GH- Not very much. It isn't very much use. It waves about
in this cloud without being much use to me. I am using another kind
of - I am using the chakra as a whole, the astral chakra as a whole,
to see what I have been describing to you.
DDL- To sum up.There are three sort of centres of energy?
GH- Yes. Correct.
DDL- Driving to - of which the centre one is receiving
from the other two?
GH- The incoming force passes through the other two and then
onto the centre, yes.
DDL- From that centre one it appears to you to go to the
DDL- From above, and as you followed it with your
consciousness a dumbbell appears.
DDL- Would you have any chance of trying to go down the
GH- Then we must break.Yes I would be glad to try. I must
now have a complete break. (discussion follows)
DDL- CWL you know, somewhere in his -- saying "Oh, I wish
AB were here so that she could shoot up to the astral and have a
look while I look from below".
GH- Does he?
DDL- Yes. You're trying to do both at once.
GH- Yes, and it's very difficult.
DDL- Well, that's terribly interesting.
GH- It's an interesting experience for me. It's my first
sight of an astral, presumably astral atom but you see how
elementary, how gropingly one has to learn all about this new
instrument of cognition.
DDL- While it is fresh in your mind could you try to draw
that idea a bit, somehow?
GH- Well I can easily draw - er- (tape stopped). Shall I
say what I said first?
DDL- Yes, if you would, please.
GH- (describing his observation in retrospect.) Well my
impressions on finding myself or rather the end of the etheric
tube inside the lump of salt was, first of all, of a single
sodium or chlorine dumbbell, I could not say which, but
definitely a dumbbell. Only the upper funnel system of which
was first seen. Later I saw the whole, or nearly all that
dumbbell system. I saw some of these by themselves maintaining
their integrity, not having been modified by association with
anything else. Then the next thing I saw was moving about
amongst them, as I believe I must have said, a totally different
appearance altogether, with no relation to dumbbells whatever,
of a grouping of shapes radiating from a common centre which
looked like closed tulip buds. These were moving about with
their independent life also. Then I saw what seemed to me to be
that some of these had got attached to the dumbbells; were
clinging, stuck to them. And a vivid interchange going between
the force centres in the middle of each, to make a kind of unit,
which was dual. Now I was not trying with my mind to try and
see molecular arrangements of anything like that at all, merely
objectively to describe what I saw, for what it was worth,
without thinking of meaning, as I always do. After that I went
up to the astral level and had many interesting experiences,
some of which I have recorded. That sums up briefly my
experiences this morning, for what they are worth.
DDL- Then we discussed CWL's record in Occult Chemistry.
We do not know from Occult Chemistry exactly what CWL was examining,
whether it was a sodium chloride molecule in a liquid state (ie
solution) or whether in a lump of salt there are free sodium
dumbbells as well at the appearance which he tells us is that of
a sodium chloride molecule.
DDL- After morning tea GH is going to re-examine this
lump of sodium chloride. He has not studied the diagram in OC of
the sodium chloride molecule yet. (1980 - he had briefly glanced at
it, see p. 489 insert). I am going to ask him if he has ever seen
any sort of appearance of two dumbbells coalescing to form a tulip
system. I now he hasn't, but if he does happen to see anything that
might be happening like that, watch it. (1980 - DDL was thinking in
1957 in terms of a Sodium OCA, which is dumbbell shaped, uniting
with a dumbbell shaped chlorine OCA to form the OCM (occult
chemistry molecule) of NaCl as illustrated in OC, fig 165).
GH- Well, I wish to confirm that within the limitations of
my capacity, to study these subjects direct, in this lump of sodium
chloride I find the dumbbell shape to be present. Noticeably,
markedly present. I also see present, systems of pointed ovals
which I did call tulip buds, and these are in groups, as I have
already described them, in that the buds radiate from a common
centre and it seems to be systematic. Perhaps cruciform in three
dimensions. Something like that, and there are anu inside the tulip
buds. This is the customary presence in various arrangements of the
play of forces which are granular or consist of anu. So that I
can't help but say there are both present.
DDL- Can you see any funnels in association with the
tulips only? That is, radiating out like the tulips?
GH- Not clear-cut like the ends of the bars of the
dumbbells. Between the tulip buds forces are rushing out. In
between them. Relatively uncoordinated. Just out rushing energies.
But I cannot say, or shall I say I cannot see at present, with my
present limitations, I cannot see anything that looks like a blend
of the closed tulip bud effect and the open funnel effect working
together or existing together. It doesn't look like that to me now.
DDL- Now, can you go to the centre where the tulip buds
converge and examine that closely.
GH- I'll try -(P)-. Well, it is an arrival centre, for - as
I have already described forces are arriving there from a higher
dimension and shooting off along the general - forming the general
pattern that I have described.
DDL- And it doesn't differ from the other arrival
GH- Where, which other?
DDL- The ones you saw, say in the carbon, or in the
GH- Oh, I see, wait a moment. It doesn't strike me as being
different in essence, but I'll look at it more closely. -(P)- I
don't see any difference, marked difference. It's an arrival
centre from the higher planes.
DDL- Last thing. Will you go up to the astral at that
GH- I shan't be able to do much more of this atomic physic
stuff. No I can't do any more. I want to ask you something just
before I stop. Will the edge or skin of this lump be any different
from the interior?
DDL- Only in that it is likely to absorb some water from
the air. That is the only difference I can think of.
GH- Right, that is my limit this morning on this particular
kind of work.
DDL- I am going to ask Mr Hodson to look at figure 165 in
OC. Third Edition, opposite page 270, and give us his comments on
GH- I would say it is very much like I saw, except that I
did not examine the, what I called, the free flowing forces, between
the tulip shapes, regarding them as they appeared to me as less
following funnel shapes than flowing freely out between the tulip
forms as you see from my drawings. I cannot honestly say that I was
able to see as clear-cut funnels as are visible at the ends of the
sodium and chlorine atoms.
DDL- You will remember when you first saw a dumbbell atom
in March, you didn't see the funnels top and bottom but you saw them
simply as radiations. You think perhaps the same sort of thing has
occurred this time?
GH- Quite possible. Quite possible. This morning my
attention was very strongly attracted towards the dumbbell shape and
I concentrated on that, though, the other, this tulip form which, in
fig. 165, very well pictures what I saw. A three dimensional cross
arrangement of tulips which was the outstanding phenomenon with a
spray of forces flowing out from a centre in all directions.
DDL- Relative to that diagram, you definitely saw a
dumbbell intruding into that arrangement?
GH- I did.
DDL- And what relative size would the dumbbell have to
the arrangement there?
GH- This is going to sound wrong. I must be honest and say
that it seemed larger. Either at least equal and possibly slightly
DDL- Larger than the two arms that embraced it? What
happens to the vertical tulips, as it were, if you insert a dumbbell
in between two horizontal ones?
GH- They are not affected.
DDL- Would the length of the dumbbell be equivalent to
two vertical tulips, or greater?
GH- A little greater. In the examples I saw. Well really I
only saw one example of this, what I call an atomic embrace.
Because the tulips were like arms and the arrival centre was right
up against the bar and I made no effort to compare sizes but I would
say that the original single dumbbell was slightly larger than the
tulip effect produced. But certainly not larger than the range of
the sprayed forces which went off out long further than the points
of the so-called tulip buds.
DDL- Well, to sum up, there is no doubt the dumbbell can
intrude into that cube arrangement that CWL depicts there.
GH- Yes, as far as I saw. I saw one doing so.
DDL- Good. Will you turn to page 63 and look at the
dumbbell group, there. Comment on the top right diagram of fig.
30, particularly with the arrangement in the bar.
GH- I would say it is exactly as I saw it.
DDL- CWL does make a point of certain spheres in the bar,
rather than anu travelling from the centre right up to the funnel's
centre and down again. There does seem to be a little difference,
or apparent difference.
GH- You see this elongated ovoid in the middle. I saw that,
but it extended the whole length of the bar.
DDL- Rather than three ovoids in the bar, it appeared to
you to be one ovoid.
GH- Or rather, I only saw one. There may have been others,
but one obtruded itself upon me. Not three.
DDL- Yes. You will notice there are twelve funnels, top
GH- Really. Oh yes. I wasn't quite sure whether it was 10
or 12. I see, Yes.
DDL- We are discussing the subjective impression that
Geoffrey felt when he went up to the astral plane and attempted to
return to the physical.
GH- I had been, as I think the tape will - tape-recording
will show, examining the substance and atoms at some level of Ether,
where the anu and the forces were held to a pattern by some
invisible agency which I presume to be the thought of the Logos. I
had not conceived of this as being constrictive, though of course it
must be so, but the moment I got the atom as a cloud, so to speak,
with great activity going on inside it, I received the impression of
freedom as if the forces were not being obliged to pursue lines and
currents which would subscribe to the forms. So I got the sense
"freedom - Oh how free it is here". Just as if one had been set
loose from a prison, or if a drawing, - a person drawing had been
freed from copying to freehand-drawing in which he could express, he
could let himself go. That was the psychological impression I
received as I saw the astral atom.
DDL- Yes. And when you attempted to go down that well?
GH- Immediately I felt compression, constriction, and more
than that, let me get a word - individual particles being forced
together and packed in together in a kind of tight combination.
That is the impression I received.
DDL- Yet, the astral atom, does it seem to be bigger than
the physical atom?
GH- I should say so. I should say so.
DDL- Can you help us with this idea of having say
movement in a fourth dimension withdrawn from the particles as it
GH- Yes, I think I can, because it is a phenomenon which
constantly presents itself to me as I am looking at the etheric
level and just as also another phenomenon presents itself to me but
I don't let it get hold of me and I don't repeat it, but there is
often a tendency for the object I am examining to dissolve into a
mist and to look like a globular mist, particularly was this the
case with the system of tulip shaped radiations from a centre with
free energies rushing out much further in between the tulip bud
shapes. Now as I was looking at that very closely the whole thing
became a mist to me, like a globular mist, and I had to use my
willpower to come right down and get the thing again in its form
shape. I dare say I may slip into a sort of semi-astral vision of
it and I have to force myself back to see it in its pattern. So
that these things present themselves to me in a number of different
ways, two of which are a kind of either ovoid or spherical mist of
brilliant light, built of points of light, and in the interior a
centre which I call the arrival point from which granular forces are
rushing out to the edge and beyond it out into space. And I see
that always, I have to resist it, and force myself to come down and
see how that is at a lower level of condensation. The misty clouds,
not misty in the sense at all of being difficult to see, or clouded
in the mind, it is perfectly clear it is there, obviously, but it is
the effect that propeller blades of an aeroplane produce on your eye
when the engine revs up to a certain speed you loose your four
blades, or three or whatever it is, and you have only got a mist.
Now I get that effect. If I am not careful I become a victim of
that effect because everything is moving so rapidly. Now ...
DDL- We lost the fourth dimension.
GH- Yes, I know ... well, I can only describe a supposed
other position or direction not as linear at all, but simply, that
at the centre of things you don't come to a stop, but you can go on
indefinitely moving towards a centre, inwardly and inwardly and
inwardly and inwardly, and breaking three dimensional laws
altogether. (1980 DDL: consider Heisenberg's uncertainty
principle). Instead of coming to a stop you go right on, in, in,
in, in, where you open out into something not at all apparent in the
three dimensions. So within, I call it to myself "withinness", the
fourth dimension for me is simply "infinite withinness" in terms as
direction; in terms of consciousness it is simply these such
properties which I perceived matter has, beyond those of the three
dimensional world. So I could say for convenience, but I won't
because I think it is unscientific, to say this point of arrival is
a place where the force is arriving from the fourth dimension. But
I don't say that. It doesn't - it suggests that there is a fourth
direction of space at right angles to the other three, and I don't
(1980 - apparently the tape 1X/1/GL ceased to record
properly for the rest of the session).
GH- Well, if you are going to postulate the rim, and mark
you that doesn't - it goes off into a spray. But still supposing we
postulate a sort of place where it ceases to be a funnel. I would
say only three quarters the length of a bar.
JSEA- The funnel is three quarters the length of a bar?
DDL- Do you mean a funnel or the whole ring at the top?
GH- Oh no, one funnel.
DDL- One funnel, three quarters the length of a bar? So
that the diameter across the top would be one and a half times the
length of the bar?
GH- Yes. Or if anything - less if anything less.
(Original tape now silent).
26/5/57 26/5/57 11.
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CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION on 27th April, 1958.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH), Sandra Chase(SC) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL- This is Sunday morning, the 27th April, 1958. This
morning Mr Hodson is going to try and examine the carbon atom in
graphite; when he is comfortable confident that he is seeing
correctly then I will switch on the current and see if the movement
of the anu at the 'generating station' or down the funnels is
GH- ... experience, as far as past experience goes, I am
seeing the O.C.A. of carbon but from a point of view which has not
earlier been taken; that is from the top of the pyramid so that I am
looking down on the apex of a pyramid at present and I only see its
four sides; and I become aware of energies of a granular nature
spraying out through those sides. Following the sprays down, yes,
there is a funnel, one side has come into my sight; following those
sprays of force which consist of those very minute dots which we
conceive of as anu and one or two of which I saw earlier in a
clearer way with the actual spirillae and sub-spirillae and flow of
forces and swirl and so on, assuming that as we do that this spray
of particles composed of anu, I am seeing this spray, now, outwards
particularly from one side only at present. I am not waiting before
recording for the whole sight to clear or develop (if it's going to)
because I find that when I'm describing outwardly I am helped to
penetrate more and more into the strange phenomena I am watching.
To repeat that I am more impressed than ever on the occasion of this
attempted resumption of research by the presence of this background
of utterly innumerable minute points, lighted minute points, free.
I now see them more clearly this time and they protrude upon my
consciousness and assume a greater place in the field of vision. I
am not ready yet to have the current applied, but I will give the
signal perhaps a little later but I want to record what I am
beginning to see [words lost] more particularly ... is more
visible to me perhaps with this high magnification than the others.
The impalpable nature of the pyramidal form shows itself to me -(P)-
. There certainly does seem to be a centre of arrive and outflow at
or very near the middle of the base of the pyramid. I, yes ...
I ... I ... think I confirm that. I am again I say,
hazarding a further observation (using that word because I am not
fully back in the clairvoyant power from my illness) but the
additional experience I am having is that the whole octahedron which
I am now beginning to see seems certainly to be revolving on an axis
from apex to apex, slowly with this high magnification, though I
can't say how far my consciousness follows it round, but it is just
a relatively slow turn and if I'm looking down from an apex the turn
would be (GH gestures) just put that for me, David, I don't want to
have to mentally wrestle with it.-(P)- funnels are also in a motion
which slightly changes their inner surfaces. Almost like a
contraction and expansion. The skin gives inwards a little and then
goes back. If I get any more tired ... if I tend to get tired I
might lose this. I think this is the moment when ...
DDL- The current is now on. Bringing it up to 300 ma.
GH- Apparent result and ... instant apparent result if I
am seeing correctly was an increase in the speed of spin.
DDL- Right, I put it off.
GH- Just do that, say with half minute intervals telling me.
DDL- On, off ... on ... off ...
GH- Right, now rest from that. Now can you give it to me
here, David, put it on.
DDL- I will put it on. It's now on here.
GH- Oh, here too.
GH- I'll take some time please so just sort of rest. -(P)-
Well I am going to put forward another idea. You're recording are
you? Which is going to take me to astral examination of these
phenomena for understanding if I can attain it. It is that the
force we know as electricity whilst corpuscular in its expression
contains particles smaller than the physical anu which, I am groping
admittedly, which are not of the same order of dimension and
possibly vibratory frequency. And if ... and that these
component (and rapidly moving when the current is on) minute bodies
exist then they are non- physical, they are beyond the anu. They
must be up into a degree of intensity finer than the anu and can
flow in amongst them and round and even I presume through them
(though I am not looking at that at the moment) without producing
much effect, but they are not the total phenomenon of electricity.
There is a transparent and to me invisible fluid, along with which
they are carried and it is this fluid which appears to have
electro-magnetic or magnetising qualities which cause the anu
affected by it to lock. Now I am not forgetting your question of
the effect of this on the O.C.A., I'll come back to that, but this
is important because that effect is not easy to discern.
DDL- The anu are still locked?
GH- I am in the on-position now.
DDL- Yes, but they are still locked closely, contiguous?
GH- All right let me look again. I said that yesterday. It
seemed to be so. I will look again. -(P)- Now this is a good
illustration of the effect of thought notions in that I have learned
that in 'Occult Chemistry' they don't touch. That must be
over-ridden, as it can be, to look at the bare fact as it is. I
just say because it happened to have caught my attention that now I
have got the current on ... certainly the fine spray down the
funnels appears to be just the same, ... or on. -(P)- .
A phenomenon which presents itself to me is that of the relative
stability of the form of the octahedra compared to this fine fluid
and its corpuscular particles flowing when the current is on.
They're almost pyramidal in their stability, relative to this finer
force. Philosophising, I'm not losing sight of your question,
philosophising, the thought of the Logos is so strong, so powerful
and so unwavering in its conception and action that the O.C.A.'s or
this one, have an extraordinary stability of existence. I feel
that, apart from observation, I have that sense as the consciousness
is in touch with one O.C.A. To such ability as I have of seeing it,
it does seem to me that the relatively locked anu touch; the point
of the heart shape slightly within the top of the next to it, though
they are lying laterally. -(P)- All of this phenomena is surrounded
by a slight haze of light caused by discharges form the surface.
DDL- Of the anu?
GH- Yes. It has an aura of itself. I have not noticed
particularly that before though that it has always seemed lighted
but this question has obliged me to look at it more closely and it
certainly has outside of the spirillae and the sort of
pseudo-surface that they form, there is a slight aura of emitted
forces. Oh, yes, of finer particles. My new experience of this
time then is of the existence of particles finer than the anu. I
don't mean on the physical but on the super-physical (i.e. astral)
level. What were you going to ask, David?
DDL- Can you simultaneously see the locked anu and a
GH- Wait a minute, it's hard.
DDL- I want to know if the stream of locked anu does pass
through the funnel as though through a torch beam or something like
GH- Um, yes. Could I ... I will do that, could I
leave that now and just rest.
(Discussion while resting)
DDL- These locked anu are ... do you get the
impression they are moving or stationary?
GH- Stationary. I don't say ... you mean apart from
whatever motion they have of their own?
DDL- Not moving laterally along the rod?
GH- I don't think so.
DDL- Nor are they obviously spinning? They are not with
the full strength through them? It does not make it spin like a
GH- Supposing you had a long rod of them.
DDL- Pencil or anu.
GH- Oh yes, does it set the whole pencil spinning together?
DDL- That's it.
GH- Because each anu is spinning; as far as my yesterday,
wasn't it yesterday? We can't hear that can we? Didn't I receive
an impression looking down on an anu of some movement?
DDL- I am not clear whether that was an anu held by a
current, if so, how you could look down on it. It would have had
another anu stuck into it.
GH- Yes, I see, yes all right. How strong was that current?
DDL- It was a strong current, because I wanted you to be
sure, at least to give the maximum chance of that atom you were
looking at being in the stream.
GH- Of anu, do you mean? Or general small bodies?
GH- No, they are independent of them. I think we're at the
place if I may speculate unauthoratively that we are at the junction
of the astral and the etheric and that I see a little of both.
DDL- Do you think there are astral particles radiating
from the spirillae to the anu, just as carbon, a chunk of a diamond
radiates etheric particles? Is it comparable to that?
GH- It's first of all it seems to go fairly (I'll go back
and look at it) but it seems to go fairly evenly from the whole
surface of the anu; just as if it was surrounded by a minute fringe,
a minute fringe all round it and I therefore can't say that it comes
directly from the spirillae alone. It may, I can't say that.
DDL- Does it come from the anu, or is it that astral
matter is there?
GH- Oh no, I don't think so. I think it's definitely
associated with the anu and radiates from it, giving the anu a kind
of very minute aura of its own.
SC- That would make it more difficult for you to see it
clearly perhaps whether they lay locked together within or whether
they were ...
GH- Um, possibly.
SC- Not touching.
GH- Um. I'm fairly clear about that because after all the
outline of the anu is still fairly clear to me and I somehow see
fairly clearly at that at least the point of one goes a little way
into the top (if vertical, top) of the other ...
DDL- Can you confirm the distance apart of the pencils?
GH- Not now, from memory, not from retro-active memory, I'd
have to look again.
DDL- All right; and you haven't seen any branching of
GH- No, definitely not yet, no. Well let me play around in
that ... that phenomena now, I believe I'm all right again now.
DDL- Well, before you get all set I think I'll change the
tape, there is not very much more.
GH- Octahedral form is apparent to me again ... half,
for some reason. In passing I discerned some kind of a regular
system of packing of these forms face to face to produce a kind of
design which is, yes geometrical; that's not our purpose, I just saw
that in passing. Now at the centre to which all the funnels point
and from which most but not, no ... from which the energies and
particles flowing down the funnels arise and begin their journeys; I
corrected myself there then because a new phenomenon observed is
that not all of the emitted forces go down the funnels, there seems
to be also a radiation, a general radiation, into which I won't go
at the moment but I observe it. Now I'm getting ready to have the
current switched on. The potency of this centre is (with this
magnification) very great indeed, the whole or single atom, small
though it is, is a tremendously powerful unit. What shall I say? -
- peculiarly self-existent, a unit of existence with its own, almost
I would say undisturbable integrity; it's tremendous, when you get
down to these dimensions. Now I have switched on here, David. You
tell me, don't do it just yet. You can do it in say the passage of
about half a minute or so and then say. Wait a moment.
DDL- But the current is on, Geoffrey.
GH- Good. I've switched on now here ... Right, good.
Oh now, that's upset me, that's possibly why I saw all that. Do you
mind starting de novo, sorry.
DDL- It's off now.
GH- Well let me just have that. That may be why I saw that
extra phenomenon. Just a moment. Now I am going to switch it on.
-(P)- Observation:- the lateral rods of anu pass through the atom in
their path, or through this one that I have been describing, without
affecting (a) the shape. They tend to obscure it to my vision so
that I see it as if through a mist which clears when I switch off.
I can, though there does happen to be the ability to see the one
without the other. Now I am deliberately trying to see both at
once. When I do so the anu predominate, quite obliterating the
sight of the other as if they were a far more significant phenomena.
DDL- Even at the centre?
GH- I'm moving towards that David, gradually. The fluidic
flow and those 'ultra-anuic' particles appear to me to go through
the OCA without producing any result that I can discern. But I
am not yet clear about the bars or rods of locked atoms; [1980 -
DDL: slip of tongue for anu] I am now trying to follow them inwards
to the very centre of the OCA. The one I am looking at is
completely enveloped or engulfed inside the group of lines of anu
making it difficult to see both at once because the rod anu are so
DDL- Larger than the ordinary anu?
GH- No, no but I mean in my vision as I look. Oh, no, I
don't want to suggest that yet. It's a problem of relative, of
activity, I suppose. -(P)- So far it seems to me that the OCA's of
this graphite rod are not affected by the turning on of the
electrical current. They are not tossed about into any kind of
confused movement or orderly movement. They remain in their own
integrity and in their positions and relationships to each other as
components. And even at the very centre where locked anu pass
through, I cannot see - I may have to revise this with better powers
later on, but at present I am obliged to answer that I cannot see
that any change is produced and that the OCA is a creation with its
own integrity and - er - frequencies which, because organised, are
not affected by the passage of this current through or even if the
rods of locked anu pass right through walls or centre or anywhere.
I am not able to see any change.
DDL- Taking it the other way, does the tremendous
activity at the centre affect the rod of locked anu?
GH- I'm off at the moment, I'll switch on again directly and
see, but ... I am not looking at that at the moment but I am
saying that the difference between the two is most marked, as if
they were of a different order of existence altogether. There may
be some philosophic explanation of this, which I don't want to go
into just now, but they are different and mutually independent. In
some way the spatial problem and the interpenetrative problems, of
which I am very well aware, somehow don't seem to exist. However,
now I am switching on again and I will look.
End Cassette 2A Start Cassette 2B
GH- The impression is persistent, and spatially impossible
in three dimensional terms though it is, I cannot with my present
powers of this observation see that any interference either way
occurs; exactly as if there were two independent systems occupying
the same space without interfering in any way as I can as yet
discern with each other. As if there were interstices (that's what
I was looking for - looking at - just then) as if there were in the
lines of electrically locked particles, anus - somewhere -
interstices, whether between the spirillae or between the rows or
contacting anu somewhere possibly interstices through which the anu
of the O.C.A. could pass, or through some other system which I don't
observe, they don't affect each other. It's a problem, it's a ...
DDL- The anu simply seem to pass straight through the
other anu without affecting them one way or another?
GH- Yes (after a pause).
DDL- Just like one torch beam will pass through the beam
of another torch without apparently affecting it?
GH- Yes; good, that's a good analogy, ... except ...
DDL- And you saw the generating system and the anus sort
of jumping into existence being compressed into a projected course?
GH- Yes, yes.
DDL- Saw all that again and the pencil rods of anus
simply took no notice?
GH- No, took no notice.
DDL- Can you look at it astrally now?
GH- Well, we'll have our break and then it's the next thing,
I think I'll have to do. At the moment I just was going to make an
observation. Oh, yes, just want to add to the much earlier
observations and now; at that centre which I think I discern in the
bases of the two pyramids of the carbon O.C.A. this fine ... the
force arrives there from a higher dimension, isn't 'anued' yet. Anu
come into existence there as a result of the play or arrival of this
force and then assume or have begun their physical existence, their
existence altogether, and follow those lines of directions down
funnels and free from funnels to which I have referred. It looks as
if there's a creating process going on there, anus come into
existence there and then follow their designed pathways. That's all
I can say.
DDL- Good, thanks very much. Morning tea.
SC- Oh, wonderful!
GH- Before I pass to the next phase of this investigation or
attempt to do so, I want to revise and even temporarily erase
something I have said this morning concerning the effect of the
switching on of the current on the total O.C.A. of carbon. I would
like the statement to be suspended at least, that it spins more
quickly when the current is on. Something did seem to give me that
impression but I now withhold it for the time being.
DDL- It still spins a bit?
GH- Yes, but I don't see a sudden speeding up of that
movement. The term 'a bit', I can't say how fast or - for instance
I first received the impression that it was slow like the turning of
a searchlight beam round its field, circular field, something like
that, but may I please have that whole question just held in
abeyance. Turn off, David.
GH- Preliminary observation of the astral double of a
graphite bar with the current off. It is at least and about twice
the thickness. It interpenetrates or co-exists with the solid bar
and extends beyond it. The chief, shall we say, more striking
change of appearance is that one can see quite fairly readily that
it is not solid from physical standards; and that it is made up of
or filled with dancing points of light to which I won't give names
as yet, dancing, minute points of light. Their dance carries them,
that is to say their up and down but slightly curved movement
carries them beyond the surface of the physical rod. I am not
looking at atoms, I have not got down to atoms yet, to individual
atoms or doubles of octahedra or anything like that yet. Now, yes,
these myriad points of light which must be centres of force are
moving (to my sight) up and down across the bar rather than down its
length, at present as I see it; and the sense of close packing is
nowhere apparent as yet as if the interstices between components
were relatively large ... vision is the ... er ... striking
difference between looking with the eyes at the graphite rod and
looking astrally at it. It's all obviously and clearly in internal
motion. One particular form but not the only form I have described.
Now, I switch on the current and again it seems to me that not all
of these moving points are affected. Those in the centre are; where
down the middle of the rod a change of condition has occurred, which
I must investigate. But even so, some of these dancing points
continue their movement nearer the surface, shall we say. -(P)-
relatively large, no I won't attempt their measurements at present,
relative measurements at present, but they are relatively large,
we'll say as a billiard ball would be to this next class of
particles I am going to describe. -(P)- Almost infinitely smaller
as if 100 would go, a hundred of this next smaller particle would go
into the larger one. Now it is, I mentioned this because it is this
smaller particle also which comes into evidence when the current is
switched on. I am not yet seeing anything at all resembling an
octahedron or an OCA; and I am deliberately generalising to become
accustomed to this astral view. I've switched on. -(P)- From the
terminal, myriads of these smaller bodies emerge and seem to serve
somewhat as the anu does; I don't mean locked but as - what shall I
say? delete that, they don't serve as the anu does; they are not
locked, they move.
[DDL: June, 1980; at this stage we were still thinking of
an anu as being of only one size, like a particular brick, rather
than a general shape that energy may assume on the physical plane.]
GH- They arise or they appear at the inflow and they (at my
left as it seems to me) though I am going to report another entirely
different phenomenon in a moment; they arise there and move towards
the other terminal, which with this vision is ever such a long way
away, towards the other terminal. (I am only seeing what would be a
fraction of an inch physically at the moment) towards the other
terminal. The drive of the still invisible fluid associated with
these minute bodies is extremely powerful. I don't think the whole
rod is however yet affected, there seems to be just an area a little
below the surface which isn't, but this what we called core, if this
is the same thing at the astral level, is wider than it was at the
physical, if we are at the same strength of current. Now then, yes.
When I switch off that lateral fixation (relative) or flow rather,
seems to stop, stops. The nearest physical analogy would be
shooting a very fine powder, very very small grained powder, it
rather looks like it, so close are these minute particles to each
other, though I can just see between them. They are very minute and
very close together and they move as I have said. Now, I am going
to say something which again may sound, seem contradictory to
scientific knowledge and laws: I have the impression of motion in
the opposite direction from my right to my left and that these two
are both going on at the same time. The particles ...
DDL- A two way flow?
GH- Wait a minute. A two way flow. Well, to say that, yes.
The particles avoiding each other; yes, yes, I think I can affirm
that. Oh yes, I think that's right. Now then, see if I can find
whatever the astral double of the O.C.A. of carbon will be. Switch
GH- Record:First impression in connection with single
[astral] O.C.A. Same duality of an invisible fluid carrying the
extremely minute points down a sink - several sinks - they are
pouring down and meeting down there at the etheric centre of the
O.C.A. I am not bothering to count whether it is 8 funnels or what
... that's the impression; a downpouring of a force which can be
discerned, carrying myriads of points of focalised energy to the
centre of that etheric object. Yes, I've got it; a most
extraordinary experience to watch it, it's as if the pressure of the
Universe outside were upon this phenomenon driving the force down,
as if it were ... yes, that stands. Pressure, universal pressure
is being applied form all directions and causing through some agency
the concentration of an energy not, at this level, granular in
itself, but this is I think an important distinction, carrying
granules, down? no, - down? no, not through funnels, I was wrong,
it's going universally and rushing to an extremely small physical
area. There, as at the centre of a sphere, it meets with
resistance, it's halted in some way (by the bye, remember this
inflow is from all directions, from the three, from all the
directions, all points of the compass). This is the critical point,
just where the astral and the etheric meet and the force hits or
strikes or reaches the highest etheric world where it ceases to be
universal or drawn from an omnipresent surrounding and becomes
focussed into a pencil sharp or needle sharp point. How so much
coming from all round is capable of being concentrated in an
immeasurably small physical area I am not concerned with at the
moment, but it is. Yes, yes, then ... first of all the speed of
travel is slowed down; it was the first thing I next noticed. Yes,
the speed of movement of the little particles, or shall I say the
sense of a tremendous rushing movement is reduced. Thereupon
dimensional controls are applied and they no longer are universal
(if I am using my words at all meaningfully, I mean coming from all
directions) but are now directed and without being spending a lot of
time on details which can be studied later, then I suppose, I am not
seeing it at the moment, wholly, partly only, the phenomena
associated with the O.C.A. occur physically. We have the two
opposites at the astral level, everything is associated with arrival
or movement towards a centre, and that centre is posited at the
etheric level. It's down at the base, no, no, ... down at the
lowest level, lower level. Thereupon the other movement obtains and
is external again, fearfully limited, (oh no that's not a very good
adjective, very much, very good word) but tremendously limited so
that you could count the number of resultant anu (I presume they
are) whereas you couldn't count the inflowing, far smaller bodies.
Now we have also in addition to two movements inwards and then
outwards, we now have definitely to my sight particles of two sizes.
Inside the astral and slightly beyond the astral double of the bar
we have two sizes visible to me. I switch on, the smaller ones
extremely fine grain flow or 'form' is better, I am not sure about
'flow', 'form' along the inside of the bar and then this invisible
fluid, that's a contradiction in terms again, this sense of
transparent energy, that's better, flows along from left to right in
my first sight of it, but I, yes, as far as I have gone up to now
and in my present state of clairvoyant power, I would say yes, a
two-way energy. If that gears with physical laws and known
electrical facts, I can't say. I have that impression. -(P)- I am
gong to try and see the effect of current at that point of arrival.
DDL- Point of departure?
GH- Both. Um. At the point where the universally dispersed
or existing force and particles rush in down to an etheric point and
then etherically it goes outwards. I should say, I must say here
again, that those two movements are utterly unaffected by each
other. The anu are larger than the inrushing points and go through
them without apparently affecting them and they in their turn coming
in, pass through the anu without affecting them.
DDL- You can see both simultaneously?
GH- Yes, I can. Well, I'm at the bottom you see. I'm
teetering, I am just at ... the ... (in our Theosophical
terms) lowest level of the seventh sub-plane of the astral and the
uppermost level of the highest sub-plane of the physical, I think,
and therefore I can catch some kind of a glimpse of what's happening
physically. -(P)- The pity is that when I turn on astral vision
fully to watch phenomena I lost the O.C.A. I have to develop a
technique of seeing more clearly than just a sort of intuitive
perception of what's going on down there. -(P)- Of course I lose
it, it doesn't exist astrally ... the centre does. Do you want to
make a comment there? I would welcome it because I am really in a
very unusual realm. Anything occur to you David?
DDL- You're at the moment watching the 'sink' from the
GH- That's right.
DDL- And there are a lot of these 'sinks' about the
place? Corresponding to a lot of O.C.A.'s? -(P)-
GH- At first when I try to answer that question from within
this unaccustomed realm where the usual laws of matter don't seem
altogether to obtain, the whole of our environment and all that
therefore that is within the graphite rod, is astrally associated
with a process of concentration of the universal towards centres.
Now you will say, "I see, well then there must be myriads of
centres". I don't at the moment see that. I only see a universal
procedure of convergence of force.
SC- To one centre ... ?
GH- Wait a moment, yes, I know. I am looking. There's a
principle, now ... It doesn't look quite like you'd imagine
until you get - until you look at it from below and get to the
formation of anu and O.C.A. physically; from there, and that was
where I was looking from at first, it does look as if there were
innumerable such points of arrival from the universal to these
centres. Yes, that's how it looks etherically and if I ...
but I have to confess (and I know it seems to contravene some kind
of physical possibility) at the astral level purely the
sensation and appearance is of a general movement towards a focus,
towards ... there are no words of course ... movements,
rushing towards a state of concentration. Etherically the answer
then is 'yes'. Astrally I can't say. It looks very much more
universal. -(P)- I am going to try and look at one of these points
of arrival and see if it's affected by the current ... from
that inquiry I am deflected by the sudden observance of something
else, which since it might be significant I want to say. There's a
re-emergence going on, back from this compressed condition in the
etheric physical into the freedom or relative universality of the
next condition of matter, higher, subtler. When you are looking at
one you are not so very much aware of the other but I just ...
it caught my attention.
DDL- Do that, will you?
GH- The return you mean?
GH- Follow it a bit?
GH- The best physical analogy I can give you is the arriving
of bubbles at the surface of water and the consequent release of
whatever those bubbles contain, gas or air. Now I just want to go
on before you speak. Those bubbles are anu; I am not using this in
the koilon bubble sense at all, I am merely using an analogy. It's,
it seems to me at this stage that some anu are dissolving out and
their energy goes back towards its source whatever that is. I've
not see this before or any of this so that I am new to it but that's
what it looks like.You can question me if you want to.
DDL- Can you now follow that back so as to see an anu
GH- Yes, I saw one fade, that's what made me say it, I'll do
it again. What about it David.
DDL- What sex is it?
GH- What, what?
DDL- What sex is it, male or female?
GH- Oh I see, I don't know whether I can tell you that, I'll
see. Now what decides that, just bring back will you, Occult
Chemistry, the direction of spin isn't it? Or not only?
DDL- Um, as you look at it, does the major group of
whorls ... which way does it go, from left to right or from
right to left?
GH- Yes, I see, before it fades out in its normal state.
Um, wait a minute now, I'll see if I can see that. Supposing I am
facing it, and it's like that in front of me like an egg standing
on its point in front of me, - oh they're doing it all the time, the
atmosphere is as full of them as it is of those dancing vitality
globules, of the discharging ones, I don't know whether ...
I've become more aware of the force flowing inside the spirillae and
that appears to be flowing counter-clockwise, don't pin me too much.
I am committing myself there, I know, and I am doing it on request,
but it's the first answer I would give. I'll just watch this
process if I can. The power which was being used, is being used to
both drive the force downwards (diagrammatically) towards the
etheric where it becomes manifest as anu to operate in the way of
forcing that form of manifestation. How the two kinds of
concentration of the Logos or forces which are entirely opposite can
co-exist and be operating oppositely amidst the myriads of atoms is
beyond my comprehension and I don't pretend to explain. But that is
what I think I see. Yes, with all hesitation, feel to be going on.
Coming to the end of what I had better do, if there's one thing?
DDL- Just switch the current on and tell me what you see
when I alter the resistance.
GH- Now I am going to the astral double of the bar, Um?
DDL- That's right.
GH- Well, wait a moment I haven't been there at all. I got
out of that and I was looking at atoms in general, anu in general.
Now wait a moment, just give me a second and I'll tell you. Not
altered it yet, have you? Wait a moment.
DDL- You haven't switched on.
GH- No, I know that. I am going to now. Just getting my
focus, the astral focus clear a so I can ... switching on. -(P)-
Yes, what re you going to do, diminish?
DDL- I am going to diminish right down. It is now right
down and I am now coming slowly right back. I'm halfway, now it's
End Cassette 2B Start Cassette ??
27/4/58 105 X1/1
GH- Do it again please. Just saying ...
DDL- Well I am starting now to reduce, still reducing,
I'm about half way, I am now at the minimum, now I start coming up,
I'm about half way and now approaching the maximum and there it is.
GH- Yes, right, thank you I can make a comment. As far as I
could say, the same effect is produced as in the case of the
intra-etheric current, that is, a diminution in the size of the area
affected by the current. It was bigger I think at the astral than
at the physical. But it seemed to diminish in size, that is to say
it become a smaller area affected. Now, it's off, that 's all I'd
better do, David.
End Volume 1 =========================================
Start Volume 2 =========================================
25 Jan 1959 Omitted 140-145
26 Jan 1959 Omitted 146-152
10 Feb 1959 Omitted 152-159
Size: 64000 byte(s) R09
electric current in a graphite conductor
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION on 10th February, 1959.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL- Today is Tuesday, 10th February, 1959. Present:
DDL- There is a graphite conductor in front of GH. He is
going to study electric current in it.
GH- My first experience this morning on probing into the
graphite was as always of myriads of dancing, free specks, lighted
points. Now, my next sight was of what I've come to recognise as a
funnel, a typical O.C.A. funnel. Magnification is such that I don't
see the rest of the O.C.A. at the moment. I'm going to accustom
myself to this for a time. The carbon atom is becoming visible. I
happen to have the upper pyramid edge towards me and I can see the
two funnels at the side, pouring out their streams of lighted
points. Now I'll switch on and see if that is affected. [I'm]
surrounded by the same phenomenon of these myriads of inconceivably
minute points which aren't associated with it. So that we have two
conditions. Apparently the same lighted points forming or
associated with the O.C.A. and apparently unaffected by the dynamics
of the O.C.A., all these myriads of entirely free points. I'll
switch on and see. I have again to report that this particular
O.C.A. or portion of it which I happen to have contacted is not
changed as far as I can see. The anu situation isn't visible as I'm
looking at ta pyramid and funnels. It's not noticeable very much at
any rate. I again affirm, as far as my sight and interpretation go
this is an existent object and not my thought- form, though of
course a thought-form of a presumed emanator. Now I'm going to try
and get to the anu. I'll say in case it's relevant that the
proportionate size (I'll hazard this) just as an experimental
statement for further study - I was going to try and count, but I'm
... but the anu are still too small to compare with the pyramid.
I was hoping I could assess, I'll try again. Yes, the dimensions
are too different, the point still remains only a very minute point
when I'm at the magnification of an O.C.A. Now I'll try and increase
it. Not forgetting that other question. Instantly numbers of
funnels, unrelated to sides and patterns present themselves to the
mind in all angles, in fact I'm in a world of funnels now - groups
of loud-speakers, conical loud-speakers. Now the lighted points are
larger. Increasing the magnification, nothing else much exists but
these swiftly moving points. I'm having very great difficulty this
morning with magnifying beyond O.C.A. I'll just go on tuning in by
describing other things. I've suddenly got the magnification I
think. I happen to see two halves of two - well, we'll call them
anu, at the point of near junction. They are not touching. The
peg-top point of one to the right is just within the opening of the
one of the left, yes, there's tremendous force flowing through them,
round ... the ... oh! what a pity - the ... the opening is
more like a funnel when the current is on. It still retains its
shape and so on, but it's really forces flowing out of it and in
... and round the adjoining anu. [NB disturbing noise caused to
become a little disjointed] Yes, now I think I've got them ... The
corrugations coming up ... [door banged and investigation had to
be suspended]. Just to lead myself in [again], I repeat the strong
impression that the real phenomena of O.C.A.'s, of this carbon one
is funnels radiating from a centre and there the centre is - yes
there are the shadowy faces, but the impression is that they are
very secondary to the system of a brilliantly lighted centre from
which the funnels radiate and the centre itself at the magnification
to see funnels looks homogeneous; but I'll look into it.
End Cassette 9B Start Cassette 10A
GH- [I'm] not forgetting the other things. It is an arrival
and discharge point for energy, [which] shoots off down the
funnels mainly. It also has some free discharges round it - oh! -
oh I see, it's now - I've magnified it by itself, it's full of, it's
made up of spherical pearl-like or bubble-like clustered components,
it's held together. It's a mystery there! It's not like anything
I've heard of. You see, the astral's supervening, unconsciously on
my sight, that's the astral double of the centre which looks like a
cluster of relatively large pearl-like objects, all held together,
oh yes, now, but not so at the physical. The physical is simply an
arrival point of energy which shoots out in particle form. I just
want to try the electrical current on that. [Modify] the earlier
impression. [Something] rushes from left to right. It's odd. It's
extremely difficult to change from one magnification and one
phenomenon to another. So-called, I think, the so-called locked anu
position has to be somewhat modified. There are objects related to
each other as suggested. They ... their ... they may not
necessarily be the same as the free anu. They look more like cones
with their points, with one point into the opening of the other
laterally across the bar. That's alright, but it's, I doubt whether
it is an object at all, it's an illusion formed by the flow of the
forces, which sets the etheric matter into those shapes. Whether
these are actually anu in the ... or ... whether they are
actually anu that once were the free ones suddenly caught, I now
have doubts. That fact that I kept reporting that the shape altered
when the current - from an anu, heart-shaped, - when the current was
on, I think wants considering very closely. I must draw them but
they're more like a series of funnels or peg- tops in relation to
each other, points entering the opening of the next one. They're
there! They're visible, but I ... -(P)- there is a spinning
vortex, there are spinning vortices, yes. The funnel is lined with
... yes, the funnel is lined with spirals, but then, they are
like anu stretched out, elongated. I switch off. They vanish, and
the condition of myriads of unrelated dancing points resumes. That
stays there, too. Now on again. Current on again now, David?
DDL- Yes, I've just cut out the indicator (ammeter).
GH- Alright, the phenomena are there. I have the current on
at the moment. I have in my sight the half of two. Your question
is answered by me in this unsatisfactory way, that when the current
is off, they are not there at all, and when it is switched on they
are called into existence. I don't mean they are then created, but
they are called into that condition that I have described. Then
when I switch off it vanishes. I mean I can't take one any and say
"oh there it is now floating free" because it doesn't, as far as I
can say. [I had asked GH how it was that the free anu, relatively
'miles' apart, become 'locked' into closely packed lines of head and
tail arrangement; there seemed to me to be a problem of increased
density (in numbers) of anu].
DDL- Can we try A.C. with that line of cones then?
GH- (Sighs). Wait a moment though. When I tell you. Let
me get the full. We'll do that, I'll rest.
DDL- You would like me to put the word illusion for those
cones in inverted commas?
GH- Yes, because I have seen this morning that the forms
have as I said a real visual existence and appearance, but are
themselves the product of moving forces, and in that sense only I
mean to say that the anu is an illusion. But now I'm talking as it
were, casually and not [while] observing, talking from memory, I'd
like to just sum up the impression so far:-[If] the locked,
relatively rigid connecting objects are anu, then it would seem to
me that their shape is altered by the current. That the rounded
more purely heart-shaped form of an anu free is not presented to my
sight at any rate and it is just as if you stretched them, so that
they have a longer point, and that the top, whilst retaining its
appearance to a large extent opens into a semblance of the opening
of a funnel. That gave me the impression that this was a form, an
illusory form produced by the rushing of the electric current.
However I then tested that and had to confess that nevertheless that
there was a "spirillae" arrangement, so-called, of the sides of the
cones and that therefore there was a resemblance to the anu as we
know it. So, I will look at it all again and probe now that I am on
to it more and more closely into this mysterious object and find out
whether it is a stretched anu, a locked, stretched anu formed into
lines by the current or whether it is a new body which is brought
into existence when the current is switched on.
DDL- Would the astral appearance be helpful there?
GH- It might. I'll try these things directly when I've had
a little rest.First re-observation and repetition. Flow of the
electric current is marked by the appearance to clairvoyant sight of
a rush of minute lighted particles which appear to be and I think
are introduced or formed at the pole or place of entrance on my
left, which I believe is the negative. These aren't organised into
shapes or patterns as far as I can see. They simply flow down the
bar from end to end, but they are held in that, as we now have it,
lateral direction of flow. Now this is nowhere near the
magnification of anu level, I'm now going down to that if I can, or
up to it, but that is an obvious fairly easily visible - at the
present moment at any rate - to me - result of switching on. - are
we really switched right off, David, absolutely? Absolutely off,
now for instance, nothing coming at all?
DDL- Nothing detectable here. [GH had a small switch
which I suspect he did not always click fully off or on at times].
GH- Right. Now I am on again. Working my way down, towards
the idea of the anu itself, and watching the effects of the on
position ... are not pulsing but there is a wave, helical I
think, at any rate a wave-pulse, very, very hard to describe, you
mustn't take this first description too seriously, it's a very
strange phenomenon. It might be taken for a double helix or
corkscrew, two corkscrew waves on opposite curves naturally crossing
at points. Oh yes, going from left to right. I'm trying to get
size. How many. It goes very rapidly along like a wave shooting
along the etheric double of the bar, the rushing minuted light
points are inside it rushing too, the surface of the etheric double
is sheer it is most marked, this helical wave. I can trace one,
two, three, four, five, six at least from one end of the bar to the
other. It looks to be therefore a fairly long wave, but then I am
magnifying enormously. I wouldn't take that too seriously, because
I am at high magnification and I'm not sure of the effects of that
DDL- You're reasonably sure that there aren't say fifty?
[the graphite is about 1" long].
GH- Oh, wait a moment, I don't think so.
DDL- Some dozen?
GH- Did you say dozens?
DDL- Dozen or less.
GH- Wait a moment. There it goes, there it goes. It is a
distinct phenomenon. Right I'll concentrate upon that now. What'll
I look at? The crests or something.
DDL- See if you can get the number of crests in the bar.
GH- -(P)- It goes with very great rapidity. Now I see; I've
stepped back in size, trying to get the whole bar; normally I only
see a very minute portion of the bar of course. I'm trying to see
it all and retain that vision. And now I see that these writhings
or waves go through the etheric double with an immense rapidity.
They shoot very rapidly. I see there are more than I thought. I
can't. Over a dozen, not very many over I should say.
DDL- Would you see the difference with A.C.?
GH- Have you done it now?
DDL- Now it is on alternating.
GH- A highly complex figure is produced. As - I was going
to say - as if one didn't die down before the other began, but I am
watching more closely before ... I want that to be only a
hazarded suggestion, I'll look more closely. That's what it first
looked like. I could see first of all a remarkable change in the
wave pattern, the total wave pattern, and the suggestion that waves
were shooting from one end and the other very nearly simultaneously,
but now I want just to make sure of that. -(P)- My estimate of
number of crests was wrong. It's very much more. It's probably
nearer 30 from the particular length of his bar.
DDL- It's AC now though.
GH- Yes I know that, but I can still see one, isolating one,
I know that. Yes, that made a difference. Let that go on record,
that when the A.C was on the observation was made that the number of
crests seemed to be greater, but that may have been an error of
counting. I'm sorry to be so indecisive, but that's what I saw.
DDL- Would you like me to change them to and fro?
GH- Just put me the direct on again please.
GH- Now! The less complex phenomena. You see it is not
like a fixed wiring, it is a very rapidly travelling spiral,
wave-like movement from end to end. A question of how many crests.
DDL- Can you count it in time? Da - da - da - da - da -
GH- Oh I see, call it out to you. One moment. I was trying
that with my finger. I'll try that. I may say that the difficulty
is though it may sound peculiar, when I magnify so much that I can
see them at all, then of course I'm only seeing a small portion of
the bar, then if I try to see the whole bar, I lose the
magnification required to see the waves properly. So will try your
time suggestion. It's on direct?
GH- Right, I'll say it. [GH attempted to copy the rate of
waves passing a fixed point]. About 3 to that pulse, roughly.
(i.e. 3 waves per beat of the tape-recorder's motor).
GH- Is that any use?
DDL- Yes, let's check it again.
GH- Now, I'm going to ... There is a slight pulse
isn't there in the machine?
GH- Now I can try and compare with that - a moment -(P)-.
Just want to repeat before I tell you, try to tell you a lie, I want
to repeat that it is not a single simple wave but a complex wave,
suggesting a double helix or corkscrew. May even be more complex
than that. Now - - - three to the beat of the machine. About that.
No, wait a moment. Tun, Tun, Tun, ... Something, that's of
course no good for accuracy, but it's something like that.
Something like that.
DDL- Oh well, then that's in a countable rate then.
[1959: I was far from convinced that Geoffrey Hodson was able to
convey the time, but for what it was worth the frequency was
something between 10 - 20 cycles per sec.] (10 on tape indicator).
[1980: ?? 50 cycle hum].
DDL- Would you give us a clear idea of the difference
between the A.C. wave and the D.C. wave?
GH- I'll do that next. I'm on D.C. now. Wait a moment,
don't change it yet. -(P)- Change!
GH- Oh it disrupts the whole thing. Oh it instantly
disrupts the smooth regularity. Oh it's like breaking ... Oh. It
is a very complex phenomenon to describe. -(P)- Would you kindly go
to D.C. again?
GH- A.C.! (D.D.L. A.C.!) it is end to end I take it, David?
Does the direction change?
DDL- The direction should change, yes.
GH- That's my impression.
DDL- I wonder if I gave you a bigger current if it would
GH- There's a terrific phenomenon. I'm not short of effect.
Just keep it still a moment; it's alright, I'm just feeling my
way, being so careful not to mislead. Now you're on at A.C.?
(Yes). You've got a fair current on? Don't tell me how much or
anything, as long as it is sizeable. I must repeat, the wave is
definitely corkscrew. It's flowing along. -(P)- I'm going to say
what I see, though I cannot see its reasonableness. [?] is very
rapidly, the direction of the wave reverses itself, very rapidly,
with high frequency, that I don't know whether I can tap out for you
I am sure. It is so complex. I'll tell you one of the difficulties
I'm encountering and that is, it doesn't seem to me that the effects
of electric current upon the etheric double stop when any change
occurs. For instance after switching off there is a fractional
period when some of the effects remain, and so we'll assume then
pictorially that when the current is flowing -ve to +ve, that
characteristic wave I've described to you flows. Then the
alternation occurs and the current flows the other way as I
understand it, then the wave flows the other way, but the effect of
the preceding one hasn't entirely died away, and this produces a
most complex mixing up of waves for a moment and so it's not the
simple problem you'd think it would be. Therefore I now sum this
up. There is a two way running or flowing of corkscrew waves along
the etheric double of the bar. Two ways, very very quickly on
alternation I presume, I don't know its speed, but there is a mix up
to some momentary effect which gives the impression that both are
there at the same time. I have to record this, for it may not sound
sense at all, but that's what it looks like. In the main, the
impression I am now getting is that the wave that I have spoken of
is flowing back and forth.
DDL- Now I want to increase the strength of the current
while you are watching.
GH- Wait a moment, don't do that until I ask you please.
Let me get clear in there. I'll make an observation here in
case it has meaning. Now I'm not affected mentally by the words
positive and negative in the slightest degree; I'm merely observing.
No, I will say it, but I don't confirm it. I had thought whilst
I've been watching in the lst 10 minutes or so that the power or the
current and wave effect has seemed to be stronger from the positive
end. [i.e. the right]. Now that's probably pure illusion on my
mind but I just record it in case it should have some meaning now or
[1980: ? partial rectification at junction of graphite and
DDL- The +ve end being your (L) or (R) that you mean by
GH- Oh, I see. Right; that thing I am looking at. [i.e. R
= +ve] Right, now I'll stop that. You're going to increase the
current. Don't do anything yet.
DDL- Right, I've increased the current.
GH- Down to the original again. I have an observation to
make. I just want to be sure though and compare. Go down would
DDL- It's difficult to get it exactly. [Because I had no
A.C. ammeter and had to just by the position of the rheostat].
That's full on and that's somewhere near what it was before.
GH- ... add the increase please.
DDL- Full on!
GH- Doesn't seem to make any difference to the number of
waves, or beat, but it does, it seems, the observation I was going
to make was, that as far as the production of waves in etheric
matter ... full now, aren't I? (Yes) - I just want to verify it
before I say it - yes, I high crests and troughs may be slightly
higher and deeper respectively.
DDL- So the frequency is not altered by the amplitude is?
GH- Yes, if that's the correct term yes.
DDL- Right. Could we look at that in D.C. please?
GH- Raising and lowering? Very well.
DDL- That's on the low current and it's back on to D.C.
GH- Right, now wait a moment. Right up?
DDL- Now up.
GH- Yes, that's the same again.
DDL- Is it easier to define?
GH- Yes, much.
DDL- Well now I'm going to swing it through a wide range.
It's full on, I'm going to decrease it steadily, right down. Tell
me when the troughs or crests disappear.
GH- They are still visible at the moment. Oh, it's
DDL- It's flattening, but still visible now?
GH- Ye - e - s.
DDL- Well that's with 10,000 ohms in the resistance.
I'll now take the 10,000 ohms out [emf - 13 volts].
GH- What's that, it lets the whole lot through again?
GH- So it will be full again will it?
DDL- It will be full.
GH- Don't do that for a moment.
DDL- I've done it.
GH- Oh you've done it. Could you go back to the other when
I couldn't see much?
DDL- 10,000 ohms in again.
GH- Right. Now one moment.
DDL- Increasing the current. 5,000 taken out.
GH- Oh yes, oh yes, I confirm it.There are the raised
crests, sweeping along very rapidly, rushing along. Yes.
DDL- An now the 10,000 right out.
GH- Yes, I think we may settle on that. I feel fairly sure
DDL- Frequency unaltered, amplitude changed.
DDL- Now I want a clearer idea of this double corkscrew
with direct current.
GH- So do I!
DDL- Are the two corkscrews in the same direction? Or
are they ...
GH- Oh yes, you mean as far as movement is concerned.
DDL- No, I was wondering if one was anti-clockwise and
GH- Oh yes I see. Wait a moment. My impression has been
that they are opposite and crossing but however let me verify. Are
DDL- On at direct current.
GH- D.C., right just a moment. -(P)- put it again, I'm lost
in the observation.
DDL- This is D.C. Is it ... You speak of two
corkscrews. Are they both the same direction, i.e. parallel, or is
one anti-clockwise and the other clockwise?
GH- H'm right. -(P)- I see, I think I've been mislead. Now
you make me examine it more closely I may have to modify that
statement. Just a moment ... things you see, which are
confusing -(P)- I'm going to modify my whole statement about this
wave. It's single. I was seeing through it and getting the other
side of the spiral and thereby receiving an impression of a second
wave. Now I conceive and conclude that actually - it's very complex
mind you - I don't as far as I can, a primary and a secondary wave
effect. The primary very much more marked and it is that one that I
was talking about with regard to variations in crests according to
increase of current. That's the main wave pulse going right along
very rapidly. Even more rapidly, and the crests and wirings or
wavings are more close to each other than I had thought. I probably
ought to increase the number in the total length of the bar, though
that is very difficult to ascertain. That's the main result of
switching on the current. Wait a minute. Now what caused me to
get the impression of a contrary wave? Almost too rapid and too
difficult for me to sort out. I'm going to close this part of the
work on this particular subject of the wave this morning (I want to
examine it again when I'm fresh tomorrow) by an alteration. There
is one wave-pulse - oh it's ... and it does produce as it
flashes along the effect of being corkscrew-like in its path, shall
we say. So I will leave it at that, and we'll finish this part of
the work this morning by saying that the clearest phenomenon
observable to me is a single spiral pulse [moving] very rapidly from
-ve to +ve on D.C. I'll investigate further why I got the impression
of a secondary wave. It may be there, I'm not denying it, but I'll
just leave that if I may for now.
DDL- Right. Is it clockwise or anti-clockwise?
GH- I can tell you that, I can answer that. Granted the
truth of the observation, if I were looking from here down the axis
of the bar it would be clockwise.
DDL- Then looking from the -ve pole down at the
cross-section of the conductor the motion is clockwise?
GH- Yes. Now let's have a look at A.C. to see from the other
end if I can. Would that help?
DDL- A.C., it's on now.
GH- Yes, (I'm switching it off) as far as I can see it is a
DDL- On D.C.?
GH- And on A.C.
DDL- It's a clockwise current in both cases?
GH- What I wanted to say, I wasn't clear, was that the
current which flows from my (L) to my (R) goes clockwise and the
current on A.C. which flows from my (R) to my (L) goes clockwise
[When looked at from behind as it were].
DDL- That's quite clear.
GH- Now I would like - I just want to rest a minute - I
would like to stop all that and just have one more go and see if I
can get the locked anu situation. If I can't we'll do that
electric current in a graphite conductor
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION on 11th February, 1959.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) & David Lyness (DDL)
Geoffrey Hodson studying electric current in a graphite
GH- [I'll] say a little more about the so-called waves which
are set up as soon as the current is on, and are most visible to me
on the surface of the etheric double of the bar. I also just want
to record an impression, just repeated form yesterday which is of
some probable imperfection in the contact causing some irregularity
of the inflow of the current and creating some difficulties in
analysing the effects and it may be this has contributed to some of
the questioning's concerning these waves.
[NB the ammeter certainly flickered a little on DC]
GH- As they are the first phenomena to present themselves to
me this morning, I will now study them a little bit and describe
them. Perhaps you would are to give the data, David.
DDL- There are 25 ma of DC flowing through the graphite
GH- I find myself able this morning, apparently able to
follow a wave from (L) to (R) from beginning to the end of the bar
which I couldn't achieve yesterday. I will try and indicate the
time occupied although it seems to be instant or extremely fast.
I'm not now counting numbers of windings but watching travel. It's
not quite instantaneous but the wave gets there (I know this is
unscientific) gets there at once, though I can see it travel, it
goes very fast. Like that, you see. That's not measurable I know.
I could perhaps do that against something, afterwards. Remember I'm
using my finger like that. Now I'm watching waves going, they're
going across just about like this, look. Or faster than that.
GH- May I just go on, you can ask me questions later. I
just want to look a the effect which it produces, is of circular
winding but this is produced by the passage of what I call this
wave, which winds itself from (L) to (R). Now ...
DDL- That is a clockwise spiral round the tube? Round
GH- Yes. Oh wait a moment. Did I say that? ... I'll
verify that, I'm not sure of that. Oh, it goes like that. Look,
that's the direction. Have I altered myself?
DDL- Just check ...
GH- Wait a moment, I think I've misled you there. A moment.
DDL- Just reoperate your switch, Geoffrey.
GH- Now, is the current, what's the position now?
DDL- Now that you've altered it, it is on, but when you
were speaking before it was off.
GH- Wait a moment - that is where I got wrong. Now that is
the off position as I take it. (Switches on) Yes, there it is.
[1959: GH apparently unconsciously, was describing a memory of the wave movement. This
possibility, i.e. of the clairvoyant accidentally describing a continuing mental image instead of
objectively, has to be borne in mind in analysing these reports.]
GH- It's awkward for me ... if you were looking at
the end of the bar from where you sit, it would go ...
JSEA & DDL - clockwise
GH- Sorry if I contradicted myself. I'd say that this
current is probably coming in at two different places on the rod,
more , and that seems to be producing unusual or perhaps altered
effects and may have given rise to my suggestion of a double helix.
I'll just investigate that again now. I'm off. -(P)- I can't.
-(P)- I must now say that all that I can see is one, main, helical,
very swift passage of a circular wave along the rod.
DDL- You said circular, you mean spiral?
GH- Yes, but it's going round I mean. Yes, spiral. Is
there anything particular about that; for I'll leave it if not.
DDL- No. I think if you will go to the locked anu.
GH- Right. -(P)- I'll say that switching on instantly
produces what I can only describe as an area of rigidity at first,
at present, in the centre, down the centre of the bar and in
diameter, at least ... one third of the diameter of the bar;
that is a phenomenon which disappears when the current is switched
off, and all the minute rushing active dancing lighted particles are
relatively free. Switched on, there it is, there is an area of
about a third of a diameter, which is lighted by the bye - it has
light - I'll go down into it - yes, particles and invisible force
driving them apparently are rushing with incredible speed all the
time from (L) to (R). They're pouring in so fast as to be
practically touching. That is tremendously active throughout the
bar and I see that GHthese points of force are rushing in throughout
the whole of the bar, but for some reason it seems to be more
concentrated as I've just said in the centre of the bar, as if
something made a concentration of inrushing points and energy not
filling the whole of the bar. There are ... and they go so fast
that even at the magnification I'm using now, I can see a path of
movement rather than a point. Yes, they're going fast enough to
make at first at any rate, yes lines right across, though I am
concentrating at the point of ingress where this phenomenon is
easier to see and very marked. Yes. This seems contradictory, but
I'll just record it. The majority of them - we'll call them anu for
ease - the majority of them rush with great rapidity right across
out of my line of sight altogether, and at first, as far as I see
them, they make paths so great is their speed. It looks as if a
number are contiguous. Presumably this is the anu locks, but I
haven't got down to that yet.
DDL- Your really think that there are anu travelling?
GH- There are lighted points travelling, which I will
enlarge in a minute. Definitely lighted points, there isn't any
mistake, I don't think I'll ever need to alter or contradict this,
I've got the vision clear and there's an ingress. Yes. Shooting. I
should say the contact is imperfect but nevertheless it is producing
that effect. The whole bar is subjected to it. Yes, David?
DDL- The stream of lighted points - when you say the
whole bar is subjected to it -
GH- Yes, but in less degree, in varying degree.
DDL- Most of them travel down the middle third, do they?
GH- Wait a minute. Let me put it differently. Just let me
sort the two phenomena. There are two phenomena - doubtless I'll
get to that question - there are two phenomena: one is this
bullet-like shooting in of these lighted particles which pour in
literally in countless myriads and travel with incredible speed, so
fast as to produce lines of light and off they go out of my sight to
the (R), because I'm just at the pole, that's one thing. Now I
again receive this strange impression that about say one third of
the diameter, right in the middle there is a core of light which is
light and is (I haven't enlarged enough to see what it is composed
of yet, I'll have to ... light it up, enlarge it) but there it
is, there are two phenomena, I can't make sense of it or say why,
but I do see it and I'll go down into it because that may be the
area of the locked anu. But let me establish the first phenomenon,
which is the inrush and rapid travel of [lighted] points. Now the
other matter is this. This too is odd. Now not all of the
inrushing particles are obeying that same rule - or (I must be very
careful ) - no, I will alter that and say that I perceive also some
current, not following the straight line through. That was the
phenomenon I wanted to record. Masses are pouring straight through,
but they are visible, some just as the point of contact which go in
other directions. We've established that.
DDL- Do you mean like an eddy?
GH- No! No, no, not like an eddy. No they just go shooting
off at all angles. Now let's see if I can - that I feel sure is a
description taken just near the point of contact but inside the
bar. Yes, there it is pouring in. Now let me try and ... -(P)-
This is off the point but the wave effect is right in the very
middle of the etheric double. Hitherto I'd only seen it at the
surface, but now I see it's going right through. I've got a greater
enlargement and it's noticeable as a ... -(P)-
DDL- As a disturbance right through to the centre of the
GH- Yes, yes.
DDL- So it's now more like a fan going round as it were?
GH- I don't see any blades.
DDL- No, but I mean like a current produced by a turbine?
GH- Oh yes, something like that. Yes, good! Now I've got
to get this sorted out. Now, to help myself lead in. -(P)- [There]
are objects which appear to be stationary, which have their own
spin. Oh, yes, they appear to be stationary and not rushing along
like the others. Think of a series of peg-tops lying laterally to
me, with their points to the (L) and spinning rapidly,
independently, and yes, corrugated, these are anu. There's the
corrugation, there's the point, but they're elongated and not like
the anu I've described in shape. No wonder I couldn't be sure that,
for instance, under the play of the electric current, the point is
elongated like just ... the peg-top's a very - the old fashioned
peg-top's a very good description. The - particularly with those
lines round it which we used to put the string on, and now the top,
the shape of it too is stretched, elongated by the force -
presumably the current working on the anu - the other end is less
closed than is normal and the whole thing is a spinning cone with -
but ... but ... the open is rounded and preserves a measure of
the shape of the anu, of the pattern of the anu. Now these lighted
points are rushing still along over it - by the bye every anu as I
see now has its own aura, a little fine fringe of lighted - of light
all round it - like a little aura, about one, two, three, four, -
about an eighth of its size. I can only see one of them, except
that I sense, yes, I can just see the tip of another.
DDL- This is one locked anu?
GH- One anu; well, we're using this work locked, yes, I
suppose it is a word, when everything else is rushing from one end
to the other, this object is stationary and it's spinning at right
angles to the lateral flow of the others.
DDL- And it's pointing to the (L) or to the (R).
GH- The one as I have it now, the points are to my (L).
DDL- The point is to your (L)?
GH- Yes, is that contradictory?
DDL- Yes, but that doesn't matter.
GH- It looks like that to me this morning. Wait a moment.
It does matter. Well anyhow that's how it looks now.
DDL- Right. "Everything else is rushing". What are the
GH- All these lighted points.
DDL- They must be smaller than anu?
DDL- But are they astral? I know it's a difficult
GH- Never mind. -(P)- I'll rest a bit.
[during discussion, not while observing]
GH- When I see a corrugated, heart-shaped or top-shaped
form, when I get to that stage I still see still smaller particles,
which raises the question of whether the anu is the smallest
physical particle there is, or whether these others are of a higher
plane. But they are very definite phenomenon.
DDL- On here.
GH- I'm talking myself in, which curiously is a helpful
process. I confirm, yes, as far as my capacity for this
investigation is concerned that when the current is on there is an
inrush, from the (L) as I lie here, of very minute lighted points.
The inrush is distinctly irregular, that is to say it is not even
throughout the point of impact, ingress. That's clear enough. It's
irregular, but all that comes in is visible as lighted points. They
rush off as I've said. - Oh, they're coming along the wire! [1980:
i.e. the copper lead to the graphite] They - to the contact and in -
I think it might be useful to go to the cells, if not this morning,
another time, in search of these mysterious objects. -(P)-
Something in the conductor impedes some of them, or turns them
slightly, but the great majority of them rush straight through, but
here and there I detect a, some effect, whether it is collision, or
hitting some irregularity in the conductivity, I can't say, but
there is this phenomenon of a few of them being deflected a little.
DDL- Can you not hold one still?
GH- That's just what I'm trying to do. They're rushing
past. It's an anu. I got one. Now then we've got to find out
where we are. That upsets my concept.
DDL- You mean it is an anu-shaped thing?
GH- That's right. I don't say it's an anu, but it looks,
it's got a double spiral movement in it. It's got a - I can't give
you any relative sizes - it has got a double spiral movement in
it, it's got a ... perhaps I had better describe it. The first
impression was like the, somewhat like the sweet chestnut with its
cover round it. That is to say, it hasn't got a smooth surface,
its' radiating itself, it is radiating rays and lines of force all
round itself and these spike out for a distance of about 1, 2, 3
about one sixth or one eighth of the diameter, sideways diameter, of
the object. Look at it! It's - er - they're simply shooting forces
out from within themselves all around the sides in addition to their
obviously winding, spirally winding, writhing movement, very
noticeable which I've never seen quite to the same extent before,
perhaps because I haven't been able to observe it, is the spiked
effect. But don't think of anything like a chestnut covering, they
are very much closer than that. It's an extremely fine radiation
that is going off all round, and it's a very strong one too. It
gives the impression of rigidity. I've got it. Well, it is shaped
like an anu. It's no ... Don't let's try any other explanation
of it and disregard what's gone before, I have to say that I've got
one of these lighted particles I think in vision, and it is an anu
and it's anu-shaped and it has this fuzz round it.
DDL- One of these rushing, lighted points turns out to be
shaped like an anu?
DDL- Yet it seems smaller than the locked anu?
GH- When I'm looking at them, yes. Sorry, I know that ...
DDL- That's fine, that's just what I hoped to hear. So
that the locked carrot-like anu seems much bigger than the rushing
lighted points anu?
GH- Yes, I conform (confirm) that. I know it leaves that
the locked things are, that's what I see.
GH- Not puzzled, that's the wrong word. I have to face
multiplicity of phenomena that I have to sort and sort; now I've
become familiar with the writhing, the rapid writhing of the etheric
double; I have become familiar with the rushing of currents, the
rushing through of minute lighted objects, which see to me now, this
last investigation, to be anu. Then I have this impression and it's
most difficult of all to isolate and, curiously enough, that
something in the nature of a rigid bar-like condition is set up
inside the conductor, and when I try to enlarge it high I see
heart-shaped objects. Now in addition to those heart-shaped objects
the - I may be misleading, I may be wrong - but it seems to me that
when I've got that degree of magnification going and I see (rightly
or wrongly) a still held object like an anu, there still is the
impression of rushing forces. That's my impression so far.
DDL- Can you see any reason why ...
GH- If it's real, then it is a phenomenon inside the bar,
but also going on is the rushing particle phenomenon. The two
co-exist. Now what Is their relation even in the matter of size -
yes - and other factors, that I will try to find out, if I can.
DDL- Giving you 25 m.a. as before.
GH- Oh, I don't know why it is but ... -(P)- ...
minute points ... a reality, and they're rushing through. -(P)-
Oh, there, at this power, there, it's a very strange thing, there
(are you recording) there are these rigid objects which are larger
than the rushing points which we take to be anu.
DDL- Much larger?
GH- Well, I think so, I'll get on to it. We may have to - I
may have mislead from the beginning you know, we may have to
reconsider this whole use of words, in regard to this rigid bar;
this seemingly firm condition there. They can't be anu in ...
. if the lighted points are, and I caught one and held it and it
certainly presented the appearance of the familiar anu, yet, this
rigid condition, or these head to tail objects, they may only be
conditions set up rather than precise existences. I don't mind
contradicting myself. There's some kind of reason for my saying
yesterday that they're not external objects, they're illusory and
mayavic conditions set up by the flow of forces rather than what
I've taken them for. However, I'm not neglecting, I'm just talking
myself in. You see when I switch off like I did then - -(P)- - [??]
is resumed; now ... I regret my inability at this stage to be
more precise but I am feeling my way towards the truth and we will
get the truth about this supposed phenomenon of locked particles.
They are ... are you recording?
GH- [If] they are anu, they are altered in shape as I've
described. I must do some drawing. Just repeat this, I can only do
one more thing, repeat the crux of the matter.
DDL- Is a locked, so-called anu, very, very much larger
than a rushing minute anu?
GH- Right now, that's the question. My first answer is yes.
It's why I doubt our correct use of the word to denote some
permanent phenomenon of nature. Now, would you care to reduce and
let me see if that helps me?
GH- I'm on here.
DDL- That is about 1/100th of the current you've just
had. Any difference?
GH- Not very discernible. If I describe it at all, to
commit myself, I would simply say that there are fewer of the anu
(which we'll call them) rushing along and they're a little further
DDL- Well I'll slowly decrease until you do feel there is
a material difference.
GH- Don't do that for a minute. -(P)-
DDL- Right, I'll slowly decrease.
GH- Myriads are rushing in still, but yes.
DDL- Just say "stop" as soon as it becomes thousands,
GH- It's less now.
GH- Now we still want a comparison in size, don't we?
That's our object.
DDL- Now what about the relative, very roughly relative,
is it getting a thinner stream?
GH- I should say so, yes. -(P)- Just a moment, wait a
moment, I'll be there a second. I think so. Can you go right out
to help me? Or can you ... where are you, absolute minimum?
DDL- No, I can go further yet.
GH- Just don't for a moment; I can now I've been in doubt,
thought I've said yes, but I - in some slight doubt - yes, I would
say now at this stage, it's lower, less coming in. Now can you?
DDL- Right, I'll reduce still further.
GH- The electrical effect of rushing points I would say is
DDL- Is it easier to study?
GH- I think it is. What I want to see is if that reduced -
that's alright David at that for a bit - I want to see if that
affects what we call the core. The core is a problem. I do hope I
haven't been misleading and confusing a relatively simple issue by
that phenomenon, the description of such a thing. It ... [GH
DDL- Would you just record that further observation?
GH- Whilst I was making the effort to stop one of the
rushing points, and stop it and look at it, I observed that the
etheric tube moved about a little until it got one. The end of the
tube is flexible and under the action of my will it moved slightly
about until an object was at the end of it. And then when it was,
the tube remained slightly bent or curved without any interference
with the preceptive results. That's one thing I did this morning.
And another was that I found myself able to put the tube in the
middle or inside the bar of graphite and then turn it towards the
point of ingress and watch, as it were coming towards me, the
in-rushing lighted points which we assume to be anu. That was an
interesting experience and that showed me how irregular the ingress
was, assumed to be due to imperfect contact. Those were two extra
experiences which occurred this morning.
DDL- Yes, the contact is imperfect, being a clip attached
to a piece of graphite in the form of pencil lead. We propose to
use a soldered copper wire tomorrow.
DDL- (12/2/59). As a matter of fact the imperfect
contact, though it may have existed was not the cause of the
irregularity but the combination of different batteries. [the
minimum current was, with nearly two million ohms in the circuit,
emf 13 and a 1/2 volts; of the order of 1.7 x 10 to the fifth amps].
electric current in a single strand of copper wire
CLAIRVOYANT INVESTIGATION on 12th February, 1959.
PRESENT: Geoffrey Hodson (GH) & David Lyness (DDL)
DDL- Today I am using a new 1.5 volt battery and the
portion to be studied by Geoffrey Hodson is a single strand of an
ordinary multiple copper wire flex.
GH- Inside the copper wire, current off, I observe a similar
but not apparently exactly identical kind of dense movement of
lighted particles, which we could call the dance of the free anus,
though I am not ready to identify these minute bodies just yet with
the anu. There are also organised discharges. Some are hitting me,
a source happens to be pointed straight at my forehead and they are
rushing towards me down what appears to be a funnel, ahead a
discharge of these same particles. The essence inside is bluish in
colour, like a watery mass about the bar or wire. -(P)- into the
dance there is this organised flow, there are organised flows of
these apparently the same particles from interior sources, the
suggestion of funnels, ... directing nozzles. I think I am
inside sufficiently for an experimental switching on when I drop my
finger; not just yet, let me make absolutely sure of myself, as far
as I can see. (Switched on).
End Cassette 10B Start Cassette 11A
GH- Definitely wave-like motion along from (L) to (R). I
can almost yes I can, yes it's spiral and it's coming towards me, so
it would be clockwise from the -ve end. It's the first phenomenon
that struck me, though I wasn't looking for it. I really feel we
can regard this as established; a - oh, it just looks like a helical
gear which would drive a, say a turbine as you say or a rotating
object. The ... extends, it seems to me it extends, yes I must
report this as an observation, the crests extend farther from the
surface of the conductor than in the case of graphite, and are more
noticeable and are easier to see. The troughs seem a little deeper.
I suppose, yes, it's spiral. Whatever science says it seems to me
to be spiral. Off please. For a fraction, perhaps for a fraction
of a second, I don't know, a half or sixteenth of a second, the
phenomenon persisted. And it stopped at the -ve end. Its last
appearance was just at the left end. It's gone, it went extremely
rapidly but not quite instantaneously. Now, on again please. The
effect of that is to give an up and down pulse - that of course
means nothing up and down - a pulse running from (L) to (R), a very
very rapid pulse. It seems to be more - either my sight is better
or there is a difference in the conductivity but - the wave-like
motion is easy to see this morning, relatively, and seems more
noticeable. Oh, well the inside of the wire is now much more
closely packed and filled with rushing particles. The appearance is
very different. The inflow seems to be thicker as if they were more
closely packed and an entirely new phenomenon which I must have
failed to observe. I'll record this for what it is worth, at
present observation. The minute particles rushing through don't
now rush straight through. They pulse their way through and their -
what can I say - they rush in, seem to pause and become all
concentrated underneath the place or at the place where the crest
is, and they rush on and concentrate again and on and on in a series
of concentrations and releases right through, it's now ... this
wasn't anything like so marked or even so noticeable in the other
DDL- In the graphite.
GH- In the graphite. Now the current is still on according
to me. Yes its flowing, I can see it.
DDL- Could this bunching be due to a spiral movement of
GH- Oh - wait a moment - it doesn't look like it. I'll
examine that, I'll get right at a bunch if I can, [and see] whatever
the phenomenon is. I have to say it. They are going through in
waves which correspond to the waves that I first describe. It's a
... there are two paths being followed. The major, and I would
say main inflow is pulsing. But you must remember that I am only
looking at a sub-microscopic area and therefore the crests seem
quite a long way apart, but they aren't of course, they are, I must
try and see them physically directly, but of course, I don't know
how far they are apart, because my magnification is so great. It
just reminds me of the winding of an armature; it's the best I can
do for you at present - at the full physical, not magnified
condition. There will probably be a pause now, because I am going
to try and stop one or see one of these lighted points and find out,
if I can , what it is. -(P)- Conversational remark: they seem to
(I can't find words) flick, flick in their flight. At first thought
they flickered and vanished, but there is a continuum somewhere
there. Of course I am now in, it's like being in a middle of a
great turbine, it's terrific is this spin. Now of course it looks
like rings round, not only round the conductor but right through,
but each ring is connected and there is a movement which suggests
that spiralling. I stopped one, they're driven by a most tremendous
force, greater than I can handle under these circumstances, at
present ... for a point. There are more than one kind - or, no,
degrees of brilliance to low level of magnification. Oh! -
appearing and disappearing, a flick and it's gone but there is a
reappearance immediately. It's odd that flick, of course that's a
wrong word, it's far more rapid anything like that, it's going on
with the most extraordinary rapidity. It's a new experience to me,
and I've got closer to the phenomenon. The path, contradictory
though it sounds, followed by the force which seems to be granular,
... and the paths are lighted; that is to say you can see the
path, the illumination is very great indeed, relatively, under the
crests of the waves, and then it's less between in the troughs and
it gathers and there's a compression and a on. Something causes it
to, causes the inrushing particles to build up into a tremendous
compressed moment of time, of fractional moment of time, and then
instantly the force or the causative agent keeps up its pressure and
there's a shooting on to the next crest and it goes in these series
and at the concentrations and before the escape or drive on to the
next place, there's a tremendous build and concentration of energy,
and countless trillions of these lighted points are all momentarily,
fraction of a moment, held together and then that - the curious
thing is that though that is released or rather there is an outflow
from the other side, the place of concentration is relatively
stationary as far as I can judge. It's extremely interesting a
problem at this magnification and I'm inside now the concentration
of power is very great indeed. I'm still trying to get hold of one
particle. A further suggestion or observation; now in the, the
phenomena occurring in the - between the rings. Lighted object
either changes or vanishes. Instantly a little further on and still
as it were connected to the area another one forms and goes on, so
it's a pulse of vanishing and forming, vanishing and forming,
vanishing and forming going on tremendously. Now this phenomena
between rings of myriads of lighted points shooting their way to the
middle of the trough area, then a flick and then the passage of
something and then the reforming of a particle which rushes on to be
compressed in the next ring and so on and on and on, but something
happens to these points, they don't - one - it's not the same point
going through all the time. I thought it was before but now I am
getting a better sight of it; or there may be a difference with this
conductor, I don't know all that. I think this locked anu business
has to be modified. It is wrong, locked is wrong, with all due
respect it does apply, but limits what I'm seeing now. A surging
tide, with its waves from (L) to (R) of myriads, countless myriads
of lighted points goes on, but there's a peculiar, in-existence and
out-of-existence phenomenon going on so fast that you would easily
think there was a continuum, but now I've got a magnification which
suggests strongly to me that there is a momentary flick out and
return. Now, the return - supposing I'm right - I'm going on
without regard to thought - imagine the rush down from a ring or out
from a ring towards what would be a trough shall we say, or some
cessation of intensity, they arrive, take one, it arrives, it flicks
out and - now here's the point I want to make - the new one doesn't
come exactly at the same spot but a fraction - the length of an anu
forward, the length of a particle forward and between those two
there is this invisible wind. So that you've got, rushing point,
flick gone, fractional forward, flick in towards the next ring or
crest. Yes, you can talk to me, I'm pretty better this morning.
DDL- Now the flick out is at the level of a trough?
GH- Well, I happen to be concentrated there, I mustn't say
it doesn't happen anywhere else but, yes, that's what I'm seeing
DDL- So that where you get the crest the anu are visible,
some of them seem to vanish where there is the trough.
GH- Yes; that is so far, present observation, but remember
very limited, I'm in a cosmos of power and particles. Yes?
DDL- These anu we re talking about are the rushing ones?
GH- I'll talk to you from memory for a moment, that'll rest
me, for to talk and hold is difficult. Yes? I've got it in my
DDL- You haven't seen the same phenomena of carrot(?) any
GH- I think something of the kind, but I didn't allow myself
to investigate it. It hasn't presented itself, but there is
something resembling it there which I was going on to.
DDL- Would you consider it possible that this is an
optical illusion due to the anu moving away and in, away and in?
GH- Away and in what?
DDL- Away and into your etheric tube.
GH- It might be, I will check on that.
DDL- Have you seen one clearly enough to know whether
it's an +ve or -ve [anu]?
GH- No, no that's the next stage, I'm coming on to that now,
DDL- You speak of myriads. This current I am using at
the moment is only 250 u.a. Would a smaller current be a good idea?
DDL- Alright we'll get that se and I think I'll change
the tape while you are stopped.
XVIII/1 (Continuing examination of electric current in Cu Wire).
DDL- The current I now have is approximately 5 u.a. and
it is on 5 u.a. of D.C.
GH- Confirm a system or pattern with the current on of
bunching of particles and ... onward flow without such
bunching. I suppose it is some inherent property but they form into
these discs, they're really discs, that's it, they're discs, each -
what I have been calling a wave crest, is really a disc right
through the whole diameter of the wire and slightly outside of it.
It is a disc of ... I don't want quite to use the word
compression, but it looks like a, as if some invisible agency were
stopping or resisting the rush at the crest and then releasing,
something like that, only they're discs ... wave-like definite
rising and falling, compression and release effect - oh - there they
go - between the discs. They do seem to me to move in a spiral
fashion from disc to disc or crest to crest or pulse wave.
DDL- What seems to move?
GH- The little particles.
DDL- The individual anu move spirally?
GH- If they are anu. The lighted particles. Oh, this is
very confusing. Receive that last [observation] with reserve,
though I'm constantly struck by this peculiar sensation that
something is spiralling. I'm going to just leave it at that for
the moment. Leave that and see if I get light on it later. Now let
me look at the particles themselves. It appears to be still whilst
I'm looking at it. It's a - oh yes, well it's a true anu. It's a -
from right to left.
DDL- The large whorls slope from (R) to (L) from above
down? [i.e. a +ve anu according to C.W.L.]
GH- That's correct. It's more open at the top, again I say
they are more open a the top than that picture [from First
Principles, C.J.] suggests. At least a little bit. It's a bit
like also this, those whelks those shells which are make of
spiral on the sea-shore. I've got the astral phenomenon again;
there are very very much smaller particles rushing in to it,
theoretically from all directions. Ooh, it is a terrific
inpouring from another dimension altogether of smaller lighted
particles which meet and get sucked in and arranged at once
to flow in this pattern. That also is pulsing, I think. This
is all new to me, this come and go phenomenon. Because you see
as I hold the thing still now it doesn't come and go, but when
I look at a lot of lesser magnification, I think my previously
recorded remarks stand, but now this phenomenon - oh it's gone,
I've lost it. I'll try and get another ... I suppose
you're not, I am ... looked at, it happens to have its
so-called top towards me, this one I've got now and the first
sight was of a ring. It explains many things to me. I often
when I doing this work see rings. Oh, yes, when I get to a
certain degree of magnification sometimes, there is the
phenomenon of rings, I am now looking, I think, into the top end
-(P)- it's gone, but I give the recording, I'll record it from
memory; momentarily I was looking (I think) at an anu-like
object, it looked like a ring until my vision clarified and I
think I was looking down on to or straight into an anu, but it's
gone and I've not been able to get its direction of whorl. But
I'll try again. -(P)- Phenomenon of core - what's this? - how
odd. It's just as if there were a shaft running through the
rings. Oh, it's not a shaft of metal, it's relatively
rigid. It's there alright as far as I can tell ... got two
basic phenomena to observe and describe; ... the rush of
lighted points and threaded through the disks, this also, this
bar or core also consists of points, lighted points, I'm not
seeing any individual one but I'm seeing the totality - why it
is I don't know, but there are these two phenomena. The bar or
the core, I'll use that term, the core consists of also very
much more tightly packed lighted points held in some kind of
relationship to each other which gives a peculiar effect of
rigidity at the core of the wire. Round this, the other
phenomenon is occurring or exists. [There] are not two, except
in this appearance, it is all part of one procedure due to the
inflow of the current ... I'm sorry, I caught a sight of
another anu, momentarily, the main spirillae going downwards
DDL- From the (R) to the (L)?
GH- From the (R) to the (L). One of the stream, one of the
central core. I am finding it hard this morning to get hold of
this core phenomenon. I am going to concentrate on it now.
DDL- Shall I bring up the current?
GH- Yes that might help me.
DDL- That'll make the core easier to find.
GH- Thank you, are you doing it?
DDL- That's much bigger than when you started this
morning, that's 800 u.a..
GH- Very good. I'll make the unrelated remark. The
external outflow of lighted particles was tremendously
increased, as you went up, "bullets" shooting in all directions,
some of them going right clean through my head and others
hitting me - that's one effect, another altogether and nothing
to do with what we're observing. Natural procedures of
discharges from somewhere were heightened. I'm just quietly
probing into the core phenomenon. It's clearer, I can't help
the contradictions which occur. It does consist of lines,
lines, relatively straight lines of conducting - I say that
because the other phenomenon flows over and through it.
DDL- Are they mutually transparent then?
GH- Just a moment. The core does consist of - as far as I
can say this morning - of lines of connected (excuse the word)
pulsations or moments of existence in form or lighted
particle followed instantly a little farther on by another. The
locked anu idea somehow isn't altogether right. It's right from
the static point of view, but the whole thing isn't static, it's
moving all the time, so very rapidly that it gives an impression
of rigidity and of consecutive little points of - oh yes -
they're spiral those appearances which I call pulses or moments
of pulse (probably using all the wrong language) I've got one
now. It is the - it's spirally shaped, and got spirillae - oh,
what a discharge, a lateral discharge round it! It's aura is
very brilliant and forces are flowing out from it which reach to
and are visible to half its widest diameter. That's a very
striking phenomenon of - yes, it is anu-shaped and anu-like and
it has round it a tremendous aura of outrushing lines of force
which I can see are points - more than that - little globules,
seed-like. Now my task is to compare those, these extraordinary
DDL- Firstly, it is +ve or -ve?
GH- I think I could tell you that. It's lying on its side.
Oh, I wish I could make you see this most marvellous object.
Yes, the anu picture is right. It is the spirilla-formed
object as pictured, but I can now see the interspiral winding at
one degree of magnitude round the majors, and this is you ask
me, this also is a +ve if what I said was +ve. It's the same as
the others, I haven't hit a -ve yet.
DDL- Right, which way is it pointing? (L) or (R)?
GH- Wait a moment, it's lying down - that is where the
contradiction from yesterday comes in. Its head is to you, to
DDL- Its point is to your right [i.e. the anu was
pointing away from the -ve end].
GH- Yes, I don't care if I'm contradicting myself. I have
to just report honestly. I just want to see if ... ; it is
one of a connected line. Yes, I can confirm it and - look here,
wait a moment. It is the real conductor, or - what am I to
say - here in an area in the copper of a 1/4 perhaps of its
diameter, where there is also a tremendous rush of lighted
points from (L) to (R). This is a double phenomenon, whether it
means electricity and magnetism I don't know. There are two
distinct phenomenon, there is the pulse, ring-like helix and
there is this straight flow of force right through from end to
end and it's conducted by the locked anu which convey and carry
it or form a path or do something, or are associated with
the flow of forces.
DDL- The flow of force in these lines of anu is
invisible? Is it? I mean it's not a granular force?
GH- Oh, I don't know about that. I was coming to that
directly, that's what I want to talk about. In general
answering your question I never see what we could call the
motive force. I only see the swiftly moving particles which
seem to be driven or blown by what I call an invisible wind.
Yes, I can only do one more thing now, yes, just tell me one
thing you want me to tell you, properly. What is the central
question for me to investigate.
DDL- The relative size of the locked anu and the main
rushing points. Very roughly. Mouse to whale?
GH- Alright. May I just add that I think these - so-called
locked anu - are held in existence while the current is on. The
others - it looks as if, according to my previous remarks are
evanescent. [1959: tape not clear here. Possibly some key
words missed]. Now I must compare size. Let's have the highest
for me, David what you had.
DDL- That's right up (i.e. the current).
GH- The more I have it's a little easier. Comparison, and
I've something very interesting to say directly; the small
rapidly moving lighted points are about the internal diameter of one
spirilla. Any good?
DDL- Yes. Very good.
GH- Wait a moment. I want to say something else. We've got
to revise our views of this, what we're doing, I think. You
want me to record this, these are impressions now as I watch the
two phenomena and try to understand them as well as observe
them. I consider that the whole of this phenomena of the flow
of electricity as far as appearances of some kind of forms,
lighted points are concerned to be astro-etheric and not
physical only, and that the two planes are merged here and that
the division between them isn't actual at all, and that these
lighted, swiftly moving pulse points I believe belong to the
astral plane, and that they are very much smaller than the
physical anu, and that what gets locked are the physical anu,
and by comparison they look large. That's what I think, and I
also notice now, that these points, quickly moving pulse points
of the first description are closely, are exactly like the sink,
those that form the sink phenomena. And so I believe that
electricity is an astro-etheric phenomenon and that the pulsing
swiftly moving objects are astro-etheric blended and not purely
etheric only. Whilst the anu, the locked core is physical and
that is what, is within the physical plane and limited to it,
and that is what gives this hint or suggestion that it is more
rigid and larger. It is a degree in terms of density heavier,
in density or mass if that is the right word.
DDL- Now look at the astral double of the locked anu.
GH- Yes. Well then I'll have to rest a bit.
DDL- Geoffrey is just going to record an observation he
made earlier while resting.
GH- Observation doesn't quite mean a description of
something looked at, but a mental observation and idea. It
seemed as if I was being helped perhaps by my ego during a rest,
a short rest period, and a kind of interpretation of part of
what I saw came into my mind, something like this. The lighted
points which rush along as I have described them when the
current is on, are purely temporary creations formed or rather
brought into visible existence by the flowing electrical
current. If this is right, then they are new creations, not
existing points (or, if anu if that's what they are) which are
caught from space and brought into the electrical circuit. This
is a kind of man-made creative process having some
correspondence perhaps with the original action of Fohat digging
holes in space, only this is occurring at the junction of the
so-called astral and physical planes.
End Cassette 11A Start Cassette 11B
GH- That fact makes a difference between the primordial
holes in koilon and the ultimate physical atom. Whilst all
U.P.A.'s are evanescent and relatively universal so to say, these
which might be called electrical U.P.A.s have to obey and
subscribe to laws governing generating and conducted electric
currents. They must in fact flow along the circuit. The formative
force is however the same. But conditions on arrival or emergence
into existence for a fractional period are such that they belong to
the electrical system which man constructs. I just want to say that
- I record this on request but it is a speculative sequence of ideas
which arose in my mind whilst I was resting.
DDL- From memory, Geoffrey, you spoke of the force moving
down or through the channel of locked, physical, large anu. I want
to get it quite clear. That force, although somewhat granular, does
not consist of the stream of lighted points that we've been
GH- Does not or it does? Let me go back in memory, and I'll
see what I can say. Then we'll better start with that at our next
session. Just a moment.
DDL- The pulsing lighted points.
GH- Those are distinct from the force and points flowing
along the locked anu. Is that what you're after? or have I
muddled it? As far as I can judge from my observations up to
now there are two distinct movements going on in the conductor.
There is the pulsing lighted points which I've described, and
then there is a movement of force along the relatively rigid
locked anu, and these two are distinct. I stopped at the point
where I was watching this force flowing along the central core
of relatively rigid anu. I stoped there but I was receiving
the impression which I will check tomorrow that this is a
wind-like invisible force but that there may be (and inclined to
think are) some other kind of lighted points connected with
it. That's all.
13 Feb 1959 Omitted 172-176
14 Feb 1959 Omitted 177-183
21 Oct 1959 Omitted 184-187
22 Oct 1959 Omitted 188-191
23 Oct 1959 Omitted 191-196
26 Oct 1959 Omitted 196-201
27 Oct 1959 Omitted 202-205
2 Nov 1959 Omitted 206-209
23 Nov 1959 Omitted 210-212
24 Nov 1959 Omitted 212-215
25 Nov 1959 Omitted 215-216
26 Nov 1959 Omitted 216-219
30 Nov 1959 Omitted 219-221
1 Dec 1959 Omitted 221-223
2 Dec 1959 Omitted 223-229
3 Dec 1959 Omitted 229-230
7 Dec 1959 Omitted 231-236
8 Dec 1959 Omitted 236-240
9 Dec 1959 Omitted 240-246
10 Dec 1959 Omitted 247-251
14 Dec 1959 Omitted 252-255
15 Dec 1959 Omitted 256-259
16 Dec 1959 Omitted 260-266
17 Dec 1959 Omitted 266-269
End Volume 2 =========================================